God’s Okay With Gay
Today we often hear people who proclaim themselves to be Christians condemning those who are gay. If it isn’t the angry men and women holding signs about how homosexuals are going to burn in hell (which doesn’t exist the way they believe), then it is those self proclaimed Christian Leaders publicly denouncing, shaming, and condemning anyone who was orientated this way. And yes we even have those so-called born again celebrities like Kirk Cameron that will go on the air and show the world just how ignorant he really is about the scriptures, much less God himself. There are two rules we MUST abide by as children of the Most High and that is LOVE GOD, and LOVE OTHERS. Now the word OTHERS doesn’t mean just those who go to your church, it means EVERYONE. Now some Christians will say that it is LOVE to say that a person’s lifestyle is wrong, yet that is NOT what LOVE IS. Love does not judge, and yes we are told not to judge. In fact, the scriptures are clear about what LOVE is. Here is one simple paragraph from Ephesians that spells out what Love is.
1 Corinthians 13
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails.
LOVE DOES NOT KEEP A RECORD OF WRONG DOING, and GOD IS LOVE. LOVE DOES NOT DISHONOR OTHERS, and GOD IS LOVE. Love does never fails! Love waits for the lost to return with open arms and doesn’t ask where they have been, and doesn’t care. Love forgives, love does not cast out, love does not judge, LOVE NEVER FAILS, and GOD IS LOVE!
To believe you are somehow better than another because you are oriented as a heterosexual is self serving. LOVE IS NOT SELF SERVING, and GOD IS LOVE. To state that others are someone an abomination to God for being the very thing God created them to be is more offensive to the creator than the creation. Because the POTTER is the one with all the power. And the POTTER IS LOVE!
The very same “christian leaders” that condemn people for being oriented toward the same sex are usually the most corrupt hypocrites around, they lie, they cheat, they itch ears to get what they want, they condemn, they gossip, they tear down, they steal, they do everything they can to make their religious kingdom bigger and it is always at the expense of the very people that should be helped the most. So when I hear any Christian leader taking a stand against same sex marriage or homosexuality it always bothers me. 1st because it is ungoldy to do so, and 2nd because these very same people that use the scriptures to beat down others don’t understand the scriptures themselves. The reason is the are seeing what they want to see as opposed to rightly dividing what is written. One of the most misunderstood and mistranslated of these is Romans Chapter one, which many pastors and priests use to condemn homosexuals. I’d like to shed some light on this chapter and open the eyes of those who have believe God would hate the very person he created because of how he created them.
Romans Chapter One is the most quoted book in the scripture used to state that being gay is a big no, no, when it comes to God. BUT LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR, ROMANS CHAPTER ONE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUALITY!!!!
Now for years, I have shared this with others, and for years people have decided to believe what they want, regardless of the evidence placed in front of them. I want to start by saying, God is in control of all things. He created all things, is large and in charge and NOTHING can stop his will.
10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
And what is God’s will, counsel, and pleasure? To bring all things into Christ.
9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
That’s right, God does the work people. He is the potter, we are the clay. God cannot fail, and that is the GOOD NEWS. ALL THING WILL COME TO THE STATURE OF THE PERFECT MAN (CHRIST) AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. That means no one, and nothing is left out. Eventually, ALL will be perfected, because it is God’s will that ALL be saved. 1 Timothy Chapter 4:10.
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Now, I could list hundreds of other passages that prove salvation will come to all humanity, but that is not what this essay is about. This essay is about righting the WRONG interpretation of a Chapter One in Romans, which actually gives us more hope that God is in control, and everything is going according to plan, than having to do with homosexuality.
Romans One, teaches us how God course corrects us spiritually. When we go off the straight and narrow, he brings us back through what we suffer. And he even uses our ignorance and hardness of heart to bring others into the glorious light of his Gospel. Yes, even the WICKED are God’s instrument of correction.
Arise, O LORD, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword
Now, before I get into The “Reprobate Mind” deal, let me first say, we do make choices every day. But every choice is influenced by thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of other factors. But most importantly, every choice we make has a consequence.
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap
This proces of REAPING AND SOWING, is a great tool. We eventually learn that it is better to love than hate, to forgive than be bitter, to give instead of take. This is a system that will never fail, God’s election to save humanity will stand. The ONLY ONE DESTROYED in the end is the CARNAL MAN. And Romans One is talking about how many have left the truth of God to serve this carnal meathead nature.
ROMANS ONE isn’t stating that God is upset because a man or woman is attracted and oriented toward the same sex. In fact, homosexuality is of God, made of God, as he creates all things for us to learn from in the physical. It teaches people to love regardless of how foreign something seems to us.
1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And for those who CONDEMN people who are gay, who say they cannot lead a congregation, attend a church, that they will burn in Hell (which hopefully you know Hell = Grave = Your ignorance.. by now) – But this condemnation… That many say is “LOVING the person but hating the sin” is a bunch of nonsence.
Let me show you what LOVE is, and let’s see if “Casting people out and condemnation” is part of Love.
14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
You MUST love others as you love yourself, do unto others as you want done unto you. Love does not tear down, it builds, it doesn’t attack and give up, it sticks around and is steadfast!
This is the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT – 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
In other words, if you are operating out of the SPIRIT OF GOD/TRUTH/LOVE then this is your fruit. If you are operating out of your FLESH (to fulfill the lusts thereof) you are operating out of the carnal mind which produces DEATH (ignorance/suffering/ and condemnation) – That’s right the FLESH is not your SKIN, the FLESH is the carnal mind.
Let me show you clearly, so it is easy to see that the FLESH is a symbol of CARNAL THINKING.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Now with all that being said, it should be clear, A) God is in control and makes things as he sees fit. B) Nothing can keep God from accomplishing his will (save humanity). C) We cannot condemn others and say we love God because if we do this we are liars. D) The Lusts of the Flesh have nothing to do with our sensual urges, but our sensual worship, worshipping the creature not the creator.
WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT ROMANS ONE is speaking of. This is not Paul going off on people who are gay, but Paui speaking of how SO MANY HAVE DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH. The Faith, which is the TRUE WORSHIP of God’s sovereignty. Which, you will see if going on right now, at many churches/temples/mosques/kingdom halls/etc near you.
SO LET’S BEGIN SHALL WE?
Now to save time, I’m going to briefly sum up what Paul is talking about, before we get into those passages everyone seems to quote. You know those gay bashing Christian Quotes.
1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Paul starts off, as most of his letters do, by stating who he is and how he is SEPARATED to the TRUTH, which is the good news I wrote of earlier. The Good news which was promised for all in the scriptures. Paul then goes on to tell the Romans how he wants to visit them, that he has heard of their faith and wants a prosperous journey, yadda, yadda, yadda, and that he wants to impart some spiritual gift to them… Which, for those who think this is miracle healing, or speaking jibberish, or falling out, etc… I want you to know the spiritual gift imparted ALWAYS IS THE IMPARTING OF THE TRUTH!
When someone is seen laying on hands in scripture, this is an allegory of someone imparting the authority of the truth onto another, which HEALS the PERSON SPIRITUALLY! (the blind cannot SEE the truth, the deaf can’t HEAR the truth, the Lame can’t walk upright, the DEAD are ignorant) – But I digress, the imparting of the SPIRITUAL GIFT, Paul speaks of, is sharing his faith as you’re about to see.
11For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; 12That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the MUTUAL FAITH both of you and me.
The ONLY SPIRITUAL GIFT there is, is the GOSPEL OF CHRIST, which is FOR ALL MANKIND, the power of God unto SALVATION. This is the gift indeed, and this is what Paul is imparting, THE TRUTH. So they may be established in this FAITH, MUTUALLY. “One Spirit, one Mind, One Body, One God” ONE = UNITY OF THE TRUTH.
So, now we get into the meat of what this letter to the Romans is about.
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Paul isn’t ashamed of the TRUTH, because the TRUTH/WORD/CHRIST is the only thing that sets us free to be saved. He goes on to say, that it is salvation to EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES. And we know that to believe this TRUTH, you must be able to submit to it, and confess it. And guess what?
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
That’s right, I’m not ashamed either. EVERYONE will eventually come to the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH! To God’s glory. To the Jew First and then the Gentile, and a simple study shows that ALL GENTILES are brought in, so ALL ISRAEL WILL be saved as well… MEANING, NO ONE IS LEFT OUT!
So far, it’s easy to see Paul is not speaking about sexuality. He is talking about CHRIST, the power of God and salvation. This is what ROMANS CHAPTER ONE is about people, as you’ll see.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Now Paul goes on to explain, that God’s righteousness is revealed by living in the FAITH of his TRUTH. And he goes on to speak about how God’s wrath is revealed from heaven (which is within all of us) to CORRECT US FROM the lies we have believed.
God will always correct people when they begin to worship false gods (beliefs/teachings) – When that happens God must “course correct”. He does this by pouring out his WRATH, and when you understand what the word origen of WRATH means, you’ll see it is how God brings us to his truth. (Word/Christ)
WRATH = o¹reÑgomai = to stretch one’s self out in order to touch or to grasp something, to reach after or desire something
It’s amazing to see, that GOD’S WRATH is actually what he does to you, for you to UNDERSTAND the TRUTH of who you are in HIM. His wrath is to get you to STRETCH TOWARD HIM, TO GO FURTHER IN HIM, TO GRASP HIS NATURE WHICH IS CHRIST IN YOU!
So far, we can easily understand, Paul’s letter is speaking of MAN’S BELIEFS and FAITH. It is all about KNOWING GOD, CHRIST, and OUR RELATIONSHIP with the CREATOR.
For 18 verses, this is what this letter has been about. not about Paul saying, “hey look, I hear there are some gays among you, that’s messed up dude! God hates those fags!” – NO, God forbid, God loves all his creation and EVERYTHING HE HAS MADE is NEVER to be called UNCOMMON!
He hath made every thing beautiful in his time
There is a point and purpose and season for EVERYTHING UNDER THE SON! But let’s continue…
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Paul is still going on about BELIEF AND FAITH in the TRUTH OF GOD. Paul is saying, people should have no excuse, that even the things that are made are there to help us to understand God and his power. I always say, our lives are a wonderful allegory of what is going on spiritually. From where we work, to what we eat, how we dress, the car we drive… If you look at your life, and really analyze it, you’ll find great spiritual insight. You will also see that those things that anger you the most, the people that hurt you the most, are actually there to help you OVERCOME the most, LOVE the most, and TRUST in God like never before! This is the WRATH that is poured out from HEAVEN (Within). If you won’t listen to the shepherd, that sheep dog will make you suffer until you do. Even our heartaches are there to drive us to the kingdom. Indeed, through MUCH TRIBULATION we enter the Kingdom (rule) of God.
But, still, we see Paul is speaking of KNOWING AND HAVING FAITH IN GOD. Let’s continue…
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
NOW HERE is the purpose of this entire first chapter of Romans. Notice, Paul is NOT TALKING about sexuality! Paul is speaking of people BECOMING IGNORANT AND FOOLISH. Paul is saying, that when people knew God, they didn’t glorify God as God or were thankful. In fact, they became VAIN, puffed up with pride, and basically created this crazy thing called religion. And instead of LOVING GOD AND OTHERS, they began to condemn others, hate other, and tell others what they should or shouldn’t do. How to worship “man’s god” and how not to worship “man’s god”. Who is worthy of “man’s god” and who is not… These religious meatheads started telling everyone, “they” were wise and knew the truth of God. They said, they were the authority on the things of God and so they actually became FOOLS. Their hearts were darkened, which means THEY BECAME IGNORANT of God’s truth!
YOU SEE, this, THIS, is what Paul is writing to the Romans about. Many were following after VAIN, FALSE TEACHING and BELIEFS. They changed the TRUTH of GOD into a LIE, and began to WORSHIP MANKIND (THE CREATURE) instead of God, as you’ll soon see.
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Here we are verse 23, and STILL Paul is talking about people having FALSE BELIEFS about God. This has NOTHING to do with LITERAL SEX!
He is speaking very clearly about people TURNING the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man – Hey, anyone here WORSHIP the “MAN JESUS” AS GOD LATELY?
Ah, but that’s another essay on my blog for you to check out later!
My goal, today is to show you that ROMANS 1 is about how Man began to WORSHIP MAN and SERVE MAN instead of God! Leaving God out of the equation… Man instead of realizing who they are in Christ, became ANTICHRIST in their VAIN imaginations. So, because of Man’s false beliefs, God decides to GIVE THEM OVER TO THEIR FALSE BELIEFS COMPLETLY, which in fact will ultimately frustrate them (the law kills) and bring them back to HIM…
Moving on… Now read the next verse in context to everything else that has been stated to this point and it will be impossible to believe that Paul is speaking of homosexuality.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Oh, I know, some will say, this is where God begins to bash those gays. But you would be SO WRONG to jump to that conclusion. In fact, you would be doing EXACTLY what Paul says “Those vain fools” are doing.
Now, I know it seems that when you read words like “THEIR OWN BODIES” and how they began to DISHOUNOR their own Bodies… that to the IGNORANT VAIN BELIEVER, it may seem like God is talking about Gays, but YOU COULDN’T BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH.
First of all, a literal physical body has no conscience, and so it cannot be DISHOUNORED! … Secondly, the word BODIES is not speaking of literal BODIES, as we are meant to be the BODY OF CHRIST, (A MINDSET OF BELIEVERS) — You see the BODIES that are being DISHONOURED here are the consciences of those who have left the TRUTH OF GOD for the LIES OF MAN.
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
This is what is being dishonoured, man’s conscience. Once you leave the truth of God, you leave the peace that is only found in Christ and the end result is you will have NO REST until you return. And no worries, ALL RETURN!
But for those who thought this passage was speaking of homosexuals… read the next verse.
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
WOW, will you look at that, once again it has nothing to do with physicality. Paul is speaking about mankind turning the Truth of God (Love) into a Lie (Condemnation), and how mankind has begun to serve their carnal natures and beliefs instead of the CREATOR! – IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING GAY!
Oh, but the next line is the doozy, YOU’LL SAY!
Paul for 25 verses is SPEAKING ABOUT OUR SPIRITUAL LIFE and how man has left the Truth of God for lies, and the worship of man made nonsence, and then IN the next verse Paul says…
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
God gave them over to their VILE AFFECTIONS… Now what were their VILE AFFECTIONS AGAIN? Was Paul just talking about how men love men and women love women? NO! Their vile affection was that they left GOD to worship and serve MAN AND RELIGION. That was their VILE AFFECTION, THEIR CARNAL DESIRE TO BE GOD THEMSELVES!
They thought they knew it all about God, and so they made MANKIND god, and began to worship and serve that. Paul is talking about SPIRITUAL things PEOPLE… But when people read that “women change natural use into that which is against nature” ignorant carnal people say, “This is talking about women having sex with women and having anal sex” – May I say to those who believe such things, THIS SAYS MORE ABOUT YOUR LUSTS PHYSICALLY than it does about what Paul is speaking of.
The woman, Paul is speaking of… the same WOMAN that is never to speak in Temple. Is NOT A LITERAL WOMAN. A Woman is a symbol of that which gives birth TO SOMETHING.
A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
The WOMAN of scripture, is the same that decieved ADAM (the man) – The woman is the SOUL (sense of being) – It is the sensual understanding of man, that leads man astray.
To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words
When we follow after our SOULISH NATURE and stray from the SPIRIT OF GOD, we end up in trouble… But you’ll see, almost everywhere in scripture “the WOMAN” IS A SYMBOL of God’s lost children. The SOUL of man, which is to give birth to CHRIST in the here and now. To BIRTH the spiritual truth in the natural. But when you follow after the LIES of the world, and when you LEAVE THE TRUTH OF GOD to serve mankind, the WOMAN changes what IS ITS natural use, for that which is NOT NATURAL… meaning, the womb of our soul is left barren of truth and only births lies… But for FURTHER insight into what THE WORD “NATURAL” means, for those pervs out there. Let’s go to the word origin.
Natural – fusiko/v = produced by nature, inborn
Now with that in mind. Let’s look at that scripture again, with new eyes.
… for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
“For we (ourselves) changed what is INBORN (Christ) into that which is against Christ (ANTI-CHRIST)”
Once again, we see Paul is still writing about SPIRITUAL things. This whole letter is about MANKINd WORSHIPPING MANKIND… Man wanting desperately to worship and serve man! And by doing this, the TRUTH OF WHO WE ARE INSIDE is still hidden in the DEATH of who we believe ourselves to be.
Now the next, verse THE SAME AS THE FIRST :)… KEEPING ALL OF THIS IN MIND makes so much MORE sense.
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Now, I want to take this one piece at a time. Because you will soon see HOW MISLED you have been by homophobic and biased religious teachers.
I will translate and give the proper interpretation next to each line of scripture.
And likewise also the men = The word MEN here doesn’t mean LITERAL MAN, it means – MEN = aiµrw = to take upon one’s self and carry what has been raised up, to bear
We see here, we were supposed to bear up Christ but we didn’t, we LEFT the natural use of the woman (That is INBORN in us)… TO DO THAT WHICH IS UNSEEMLY (I’ll get there in a sec.)
Now I want to point out that word “LEFT” doesn’t mean, Men decided “hey I am going to leave having sex with a woman to have sex with men” that’s ridiculous… Especially when you understand what the word LEFT actually means from the GREEK.
LEFT = a)fiðhmi = to send away, divorce, disregard
You put it all together and you find out… That We were supposed to RAISE UP Christ IN US, but we decided to disregard the very spirit INBORN, within us, so that we instead could worship and serve the CREATURE, the OUTSIDE TEMPORAL WORLD! And so we “BURNED our lusts torward one another, or should I say, one another’s beliefs/lies!”
MANKIND’S LUSTS has nothing to do with what people say it means today. The LUST OF MAN is to BE GOD. And this is what Paul is speaking of. And by worshipping and serving the CREATURE instead of the CREATOR, we began “WORKING that which is unseemly”.
WORKING = katerga/zomai = accomplish, achieve
UNSEEMLY = a)sxhmosu/nh = Ones nakedness, shame
It should be very easy to see, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH LITERAL PHYSICAL SEX!
When Mankind abandons the Christ that is INBORN, and disregards the very NATURE OF CHRIST that is meant to be RAISED WITHIN because they would rather worship the CREATURE (carnal mankind and the temporal world) the end result is, they ACCOMPLISH NOTHING BUT SEEING THEIR OWN SHAME, NAKEDNESS, AND LIMITATION.
Oh, still don’t believe me… Well, if those two verses, WHICH I TRANSLATED PROPERLY were meant to discuss a persons orientation sexually, then WHY ARE THESE THE NEXT WORDS PAUL WRITES?
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
YOU SEE, Mankind refused to keep GOD in their minds. So God gave them over to their IGNORANCE, to do those things which are NOT CONVENIENT… And no this is NOT SPEAKING OF ANAL SEX, mind out of the gutter people.
REPROBATE = a)do/kimov = not standing the test, not approved
CONVENIENT = kaqiðhmi = to come to the knowledge of, to reach to
Will you look at those WONDERFULLY, PROPERLY, TRANSLATED WORDS… Once again, showing that when MANKIND refuses the truth of God, that which is WITHIN THEM (Christ) will not be birthed, And so God will NOT APPROVE them, and they wil NOT COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, or REACH the STATURE of the perfect man (CHRIST).
Now, if anyone, after reading this paper could still go out and quote Romans 1, as a reason why Gays will be punished, they should realize IT IS THEY THAT HAVE BEEN TURNED OVER TO THE REPROBATE MIND and will recieve their just reward, IGNORANCE AND THE SUFFERING THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT!
Seek God in Truth, Seek God in Spirit, SEEK GOD PEOPLE! The days of God winking at hate and bias are over. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, or get out of the way of those who do!
“The Truth Will Change You”
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Reprobate Mind and Homosexuality?Posted: November 14, 2010 in God's Okay With Gay
Tags: God is okay with gay, Idol worship, religious condemnation, Reprobate mind