IS JESUS GOD OR WAS GOD IN JESUS?
Malachi 3:6 “For I am the LORD, I change not.”
Hebrews 11:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things.
SO IS JESUS GOD OR WHAT?
This is the big question on everyone’s mind. Many different religions make different claims as to who, and what, Jesus is?
Here are some QUESTIONS that pop up:
Is Jesus God? Is God Jesus? Is Jesus only God’s son? Is Jesus just a prophet? Is Jesus a Man like you and I, the image of God?
The list of questions over the divine, or less than divine, nature of the man with salvations plan in hand, JESUS, has been debated for more than a couple of centuries, to say the least.
Few know the History of how Jesus came to be known as God and worshiped as God, and why there are pictures, statues, and a host of other “Icons/Idols” that represent this GodMan (as He came to be known after the votes were cast and the decision was made) BY RELIGIOUS MEN and POLITICIANS AND PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS… (Don’t we wrestle against such?) at The Council of Nicaea in 325 CE to decide the issue… In addition, when the Divinity of Jesus was established as Man Made Doctrine, it wasn’t the ONLY major Doctrine established by men, there were many others… Oh yes, what a web has been weaved by men indeed. But I have no need to teach you history, I will use the scriptures and hopefully common sense, as well as logic, to make this point. But if you ARE interested in the history of how, and when, Jesus was said to be the only “God”, you can google it. As the “Gospel of Thomas” states…
“Let one who seeks not stop seeking until that person finds; and upon finding, the person will be disturbed; and being disturbed, will be astounded; and will reign over the entirety.”
Few people truly seek out the meaning of this here mystery called life. I implore you, SEEK THE KINGDOM! Keep looking, keep knocking, keep asking, never settle (Those who settle never move forward again because they are stuck)… So, I triple dog dare some of you reading, really seek out your beliefs, find out where they originate, find out why they exist, and find the TRUTH! It will set you free.
Now, a majority of Christians say the Man Jesus is GOD, the Only One to be God. While a minority today say that God was IN Jesus, no different than you and me, as blasphemous as that sounds. But this concept is not a foreign one to scripture, as…
1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because AS HE IS, SO ARE WE in this world.
Matthew 1:23
…and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”). – Notice the name MEANS GOD WITH US. Not God separate from us.
Jesus prayed, John 17:22…that they may be one as we are one – One cannot be divided. Jesus was praying that his disciples would come to know, what he knew, what God revealed to him, that we ALL ARE ONE.
Romans 12:4-6
4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.
Yes scripture always seems to be pointing to UNITY, oneness. That we are all connected, all made of the same stuff, we are all one. And yes science agrees. Look into string theory if you get a chance. But when it comes to RELIGION, there is a very big disconnect. Many state that we are not ONE, we are not the same, we are not worthy, and only Jesus can be “God” in flesh.
So today’s essay is about Jesus of Nazareth. Before we begin, I would like to note the very first documented scriptures in the canon was written by the apostle Paul, The books of Thessalonians I believe, and Paul never met Jesus in the flesh, and wrote these books some 30-40 years after Jesus was said to be crucified. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, didn’t appear till almost one hundred years after Jesus was said to be crucified. And many things that most Christians seem to focus their faith on, the miracles, virgin birth, Jesus being God, etc… none of these are found in Paul’s writings, who presents a much more mystical view of Jesus. Is this the stuff of LEGEND? Is it true? Or is this an allegorical telling of a great hidden spiritual truth, which relates to us all?
But once again, another topic for another time. Today we focus on whether Jesus is GOD or Not.
It would have been nice for Jesus to clear that whole mess up for us and just come out and said, “I, Jesus am GOD!” But Jesus never said that, he only called himself the “son of Man” and the “son of God” – Both of which by the way, we can say about ourselves. We are children of mankind (ignorance), and children of God (enlightened).
But let us look at the words of Jesus, to see if he spoke as God, or if he spoke on behalf of God.
JOHN 7:16
“Jesus answered them and said, MY Doctrine (Teaching) is NOT MINE, but HIS that sent me. 17 – If ANY MAN will do HIS WILL, He shall know of that Doctrine, whether it be of GOD or whether I speak of MYSELF (jesus)
Jesus also says in that very chapter in verse 42 :I proceeded forth and came from God; NEITHER came I of MYSELF, but He who sent me.”
Jesus made it clear, he did not come of himself. He said God sent him, he did NOT send himself.
Jesus is clearly saying, he is not TEACHING “his” TEACHING, but what GOD TAUGHT HIM TO TEACH. He isn’t saying, I am teaching MY TEACHING AND SPEAKING OF MYSELF… he clearly makes a distinction between God’s words and his own.
Jesus shared that he could do NOTHING of himself. If he was God, he certainly could, don’t you think?
John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me
Jesus seems to be pretty clear. That his “Ego/self” was NOT IN CONTROL… God was.
Now this of course flies in the face of Christianities belief in free will… But I already wrote a paper on that, feel free to find it and read on here.
Jesus also needed to LEARN to be obedient to God… Many people forget/ignore this. And guess who taught Jesus, GOD. Now if Jesus was God, and the only God, why would he need to learn anything?
Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered
Jesus also did NOT consider HIMSELF (Jesus the Ego Man) to be GOOD. He said ONLY GOD was good. Once again making a clear distinction.
Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
You would think that Jesus really wanted people to know that HE WAS NOT THE THING PEOPLE NEEDED TO FOCUS ON… BUT GOD! Jesus when asked, “How should we pray?” He didn’t answer them and say YOU SHOULD PRAY TO ME! NO!!! God forbid, Jesus made it clear, people needed to pray to GOD, THE FATHER!
Luke 11:2
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth
Once again, Jesus the man making it clear… THE WHOLE POINT OF LIFE IS TO MANIFEST GOD IN THIS WORLD. And that GOD’S WILL is the will that must be done, NOT THE WILL OF JESUS THE MAN, THE WILL OF GOD… But this many Christians have a problem with… Why they do is beyond me. When Jesus was in the Garden before his crucifixion he also made clear that HE/JESUS had a separate will from God’s. Now if Jesus was God that would NOT be so.
Luke 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done
Again, this makes it very clear. Jesus the man, is clearly not God the man. But revealed God in himself.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation
Notice the scripture does NOT say, God was Jesus. But that Jesus was called the CHRIST (ANNOINTED OF GOD, THE POWER AND WISDOM OF GOD REVEALED) – And that GOD WAS IN CHRIST (that Power and Wisdom) to reconsile the world (our lusts of the flesh, eyes, and pride of life) back to GOD, our SOURCE, OUR LIFE!
So why with all of this scriptural evidence do people still pray to JESUS THE MAN, and consider that Jesus the Man was God, and not simply, the first born among many brothers and sisters (meaning we are all the same/same family/come from the same source, etc)
Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Notice, JESUS the man, was predestined BY GOD — He did not predestine himself (ego/jesus in flesh)… an important point is, we also are predestined, but once again, another essay :).
Many pray to Jesus today as God, and picture God as the Man Jesus. Many worship what God created, the man “Jesus” as the Creator… And maybe they are right, then again maybe they are not. Confused yet? Well get ready, because if God is the Literal Flesh Man Jesus as so many claim, then why is it that from Genesis to Revelation we find scriptures stating very clearly, GOD IS NOT A MAN (book of Numbers), should never be compared to anything we can see in the earth, sky, sea (Deuteronomy)… well I could go on and on, but one of my favorites is found in Romans. People state they KNOW that Jesus is GOD, and that he is completely unique from us, and separate from us, and we must ask Jesus to come into our heart… And when scriptures are shared to the contrary, they tell you how smart they are and why what we point out is invalid, because they are wise and we are foolish. (Then again, God does save these things for those the world considers foolish)….
Romans 1:22
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an IMAGE made like to CORRUPTIBLE MAN, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and WORSHIPED AND SERVED THE CREATURE more than the Creator.
Paul is basically telling the Romans that they started worshiping MAN, MANKIND as God, as opposed to worshiping GOD, which, by the way NO MAN has ever seen, AT ANY TIME.
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time,
So we see the dilemma. If Jesus is NOT GOD, but the SON OF GOD, and we are worshiping Jesus as God as opposed to seeing him as the express IMAGE OF GOD, then this could keep us from finding who WE ARE in the grand scheme of things. We will begin to believe that we cannot be as Jesus, that Jesus is God and we are not worthy to do as he did, or be as he was… YET, once again we bump into a problem with this belief jiving with scripture. Because Jesus himself said, WE WOULD DO GREATER THINGS THAN HE DID.
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father
Look, if we believe Jesus to be God, and claim this Man such, and this is yet another false teaching that could keep up from the KINGDOM OF GOD, then we wouldn’t want that, right?
NOT REALLY 😦
John 3:20
For every one that doeth evil (ACTS OUT OF IGNORANCE) hateth the light (TRUTH), neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved
Most people are unwilling to get rid of a belief that has been handed down from generation to generation. I know many wonderful people who have come into a different understanding than their families and have lost their families for such. (These families consider themselves to be Godly, but does that sound like God to you?)
The question I pose today is… Are many misled into worshipping something they should not. If there is only ONE GOD, and ONE SON (And that ONE SON is Humanity as a whole (which I believe, as that is what the name ADAM literally means), either dead in ADAM (Human thinking) or Risen in CHRIST (The Power and Wisdom of God) then why the confusion? Why do many believe Jesus is somehow far removed from us, and God in the flesh?
First of all, we all would agree Jesus never came out and said. “I am God” … He did say “Before Abraham was (I AM)” – But let’s be real, according to scripture, before Abraham was, WE ALL WERE AS WELL… And we don’t go around claiming to be God, DO WE? Well, some do 🙂 But let’s not get into that right now either.
So if this Jesus God Man teaching is error then why are so many intent on teaching that Jesus is God. Doesn’t the fact that so many believe something is true, make it true? … Doesn’t it?
Of course not! Most didn’t believe Jesus was EVEN THE SON OF GOD, so much so, that they killed him. And we know they weren’t right just because everyone agreed. “they knew not what they did”
I believe the answer is simple. Man wants to worship a MAN. We all love our IDOLS… We, just like back in the day, worship the STARS! Can anyone say Brad and Angelina? HELLO!!!! We even WORSHIP HOLY WOOD, we call it Hollywood. And the AMERICAN IDOL goes to TAYLOR HICKS! Remember him, what ever happened to that guy? Okay, maybe Taylor wasn’t our idol, but many others are.
So, Man wants to worship Man. That would be ONE reason to worship the Man Jesus as God… And scripture clearly tells us, that Jesus was a MAN. “The Man Jesus Christ”.
We are visual creatures, and we have been conditioned to only worship what we can literally, tangibly see. (yet this is NOT FAITH)…
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen
Many people claim that many people LITERALLY SAW JESUS. And many people today see the IMAGE OF JESUS (who by the way looks like a MAN, when scripture clearly states we should NOT reduce God to the image of a CORRUPTIBLE MAN)
Romans 1:23
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
So faith, is believing in that which you cannot literally see, and…
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Notice the scripture doesn’t say diligently seeking Jesus the man, but seeking GOD. Yet, many today are still waiting for a literal return of Jesus the Man, in the Literal clouds, riding a horse, cracking the Mount of Olives, with the Saints, in the Saints, as Rain, as Lightning, (The many ways Jesus is supposed to return is vast, if literal it would not make sense, but as allegory is makes complete sense.)
Many look to John Chapter One as the answer… They say, in John 1 it is clear, that Jesus is God… However…
If you read carefully, and closely inspect the text. John 1 is not saying Jesus is God, John states the Word (God’s Truth and Spirit) is GOD… And then goes on to say that “the law came by Moses, but grace and truth by Jesus Christ..” Many will say this line makes it clear that Jesus is the Word which is also God. But does it?
What the scripture is teaching is that MOSES brought us God’s Law, it wasn’t Moses’ law that he delivered, it was God’s Law.
With that in mind, it wasn’t Jesus’ Grace and Truth that Jesus brought, it was the revelation of God’s Grace and Truth that Jesus brought, as Jesus was the WORD OF GOD revealed IN MAN! … I wrote a whole essay on JOHN 1, which really goes into detail about this. It’s on this blog, called “Word Became Flesh” check it out, it might surprise you.
In the beginning was the WORD.. this is the commandment, the will, the truth, the spirit of God…The WORD is not a flesh man named Jesus.
The WORD was revealed in the FLESH MAN named Jesus… In the BEGINNING was the WORD, not JESUS the Man. Jesus (as we’ve come to know Him), the flesh man didn’t even appear on the scene until much, much later. And who did Jesus say he was, THE SON OF GOD!
Jesus in his own words told us, He was the Son of God, and Jesus was a MAN. As was, ADAM, who by the way is also the Son of God.
Adam was the 1st MAN (soulish/ignorant) and Jesus was the LAST (enlightened/resurrected)Man
Jesus was the LAST ADAM (Man)… Clearly making his humanity known.
So why the confusion, why isn’t it clear? Well I believe the scriptures are clear, it is man’s interpretation of scripture that clouds the issue. And hundreds of years of indoctrination and teaching that makes this such a tough topic to touch.
Keep in mind, while reading this essay that never once did Jesus say he was God. He called himself two things “The Son of Man” and “The Son of God”
I started this essay with a quote from Malachi = God doesn’t change. We must keep this in mind as well.
Now let’s go Old School and see with the Old Testament says God is and what God is NOT. Let us see what we CAN compare God to and what we CANNOT.
In “Deuters” 4 we see that when God “appeared to Mankind” he did not appear in any VISIBLE FORM, and we learn we should NEVER liken God to Man or Beast, or Stars in the Sky, basically anything that is seen… CHECK IT!
DEUT 4:15 YOU SAW NO FORM of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.
Pretty clear, we shouldn’t be setting up any corrupt images of God as a Man or Woman. But let’s go further.
We know the Old testament teaches us to NEVER liken God to anything in the world, animal, mineral, man, beast, anything. Yet, as I stated earlier, many “Christians” often Compare God to a Fish on their bumper, or a Cross around their neck, or Jesus in paintings, statues, etc.
Could this be man’s biggest offense? Worshiping the Image of Jesus “the Man” as Jesus “the God”, as opposed to seeing Jesus is the image of GOD… God’s only begotten SON, which is the only way to the FATHER… (By realizing you are ALSO GOD’S SON/CHILD) – Jesus was the IMAGE of the invisible God. The scripture does not say, Jesus the man was and is God.
Remember NO ONE HAS SEEN God at any time… The SON reveals GOD… Jesus says, if you have knew me you knew God… WHY? Because Jesus revealed God. Just as the Kingdom comes without observation and is within us, so too is GOD A SPIRIT that cannot be literally seen. However, the IMAGE of God can indeed REVEAL God… and that is what WE ALL ARE… not to mention what Jesus was.
Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
As are we (The image of the invisible God, no different than Jesus)
Now let’s chit chat about what an IMAGE of Something is, and what an Image is not.
The Image of Something is NOT the Something, it is merely a REPRESENTATION of that Something. Which makes that SOMETHING KNOWN… Make sense? I sure hope so, because I am CONFUSED by what I just wrote. 🙂
I would also like to draw attention to the words “INVISIBLE GOD” – Invisible is NOT VISIBLE. YOU CAN’T SEE AN INVISIBLE GOD! But people see the IMAGE OF JESUS everywhere they go, and back in the day when he walked on this planet in the flesh people say, they literally saw Jesus.
1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us
No one can see God, God is spirit and Truth and Love. Just as you cannot SEE LOVE! But if you have SEEN MY WIFE AND I TOGETHER YOU HAVE SEEN LOVE… That is what Jesus meant when he told his disciples, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.” He didn’t mean he was the Only Father there is, he simply meant, if you got to know my nature, than you got to know God, for God is the Love (Jesus revealed).
AN INVISIBLE GOD cannot be literally seen as the literal man Jesus was… But the literal man Jesus can MANIFEST (REVEAL) the INVISIBLE GOD, through fruit.
Luke 6:44
For every tree is known by his own fruit.
If Jesus is NOT GOD and JUST THE SON OF GOD, than we are worshiping as Paul puts it, the “Creature and Creation” instead of the “Creator”. And vice versa, if Jesus is GOD, than I need to wake up to this truth! So feel free to comment away, as iron sharpens iron… But worse than all this is if Jesus is NOT GOD, and we believe Jesus the MAN is, we are placing GOD outside of ourselves, and not INSIDE.
This is what it means to enter death. Christ is our LIFE… THE INSTANT WE PLACE CHRIST outside of ourself, we enter into death (ignorance). We deny the very essence of our existence and place God far from us, as opposed to seeing that God is WITH US (Immanuel).
Now, I don’t really have the time to list every scripture in regards to the matter. But I have listed a bunch below that if you cannot reconcile wisely with your own beliefs, be they, that Jesus is the SON OF GOD a Man, or Jesus is God, then you have to throw out every single scripture written below and only hang on to the three of four references that HELP YOU to believe what you believe. Many say Jesus is actually 100% God and 100% Man… Even though that would be 200% wouldn’t it?
I pray this at the very least opens a discussion among us all and God lead us to the Truth whatever that may be.
1 Cor 8:6: “Yet for us there is but ONE GOD, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; AND ONE LORD, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”
IS GOD A MAN? CAN HE BE A MAN
Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”
hath he said, and shall he not do it -Would God say this if it weren’t true?
Psalm 146:3 “Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.” – Jesus called himself the Son of Man.
Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. (Jesus told many he is the SON OF MAN)
GOD IS ALL KNOWING… IS THE SON?
Psalms 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: HIS UNDERSTANDING IS INFINITE.
So God is all knowing, if he is, would he then INCREASE IN WISDOM? Nope! But Jesus did, as we do.
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
Jesus’ wisdom increased. Meaning Jesus’ began to understand more and more as he grew in God’s grace. He was in process as all of us. He had to learn to.
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Jesus, like us, LEARN from what we SUFFER. Through much tribulation we enter the Kingdom. But there is NOTHING FOR GOD TO LEARN, because God IS WISDOM ITSELF.
Jesus also wasn’t in on, the ins and outs of how God brings about the end of the carnal man/thinking/ignorance (apocalypse)
Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the Father.”
It is pretty Clear, the FATHER (GOD) knows all and does not need to learn. But the SON (JESUS/humanity) does NOT know everything, and grows in wisdom and must LEARN.
GOD IS ALL POWERFUL – IS THE SON?.
Jesus told us clearly he can ONLY do what the Father tells him to do.
John 5:19: Verily, verily I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do…”
If the SON IS GOD how come he can’t do anything except what he sees the FATHER DO?
Like many Christians today, we seek to do GOD’S WILL, not our own. If Jesus was, and is, God, how could he have a will contrary to God?
But watch how the SON (like many of us) wants only to do God’s will, EVEN THOUGH the SON understands he has a WILL of his OWN (outside of God).
John 5:19. … I seek not MINE own will but the will of the Father, which has sent me.
Jesus was begging for the FATHER’S WILL, if Jesus was God, he would be the FATHER and have no other WILL but God’s and would have no need to ask for it.
Luke 22:42… Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
This is my prayer all the time as well… LORD NOT MY WILL BUT YOURS… I also, pray God LET THIS CUP PASS (Whatever I am struggling with now) But I am not God. I know God has a Will for me and my life, and I know I have a will that is contrary to God. – Just like Jesus. Think about that for a moment.
CAN GOD HAVE A GOD?
John 20:17: “I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.”
Matt 27:46: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
Matt 26:36: O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt. – (Was Jesus praying to himself?)
Eph 1:3: “Blessed be the God and Father OF our LORD JESUS CHRIST, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: —
Please read that again .. It states VERY CLEARLY
“BLESSED BE THE GOD AND FATHER OF JESUS.
It does not say Blessed be our GOD AND FATHER WHO IS JESUS does it?
No, it doesn’t, it is clear that, like us, Jesus has a GOD and FATHER… It is clearly written.
CAN GOD BE A MAN
Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you.
Would God need to approve himself? But more importantly, can God be a man?
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Okay, pretty clear. Jesus the man. God the Spirit. Jesus is a MAN appointed by God. And GOD is NOT A MAN! Nor the SON OF MAN (which Jesus also claimed himself to be)
IS GOD FLESH AND BLOOD? THE SON IS.
John 5:37: “Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape.”
No one has heard God’s voice (They heard Jesus’) – No one has seen God’s shape (They saw Jesus)
John 4:24: “God is a spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”
God is not a Man. God is an INVISIBLE SPIRIT within us and all around us. Not just that, but His kingdom cannot be inherited by flesh and blood.
John 1:18: “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
No one sees GOD but the SON DECLARES him (Makes God known). Jesus is the WORD OF GOD revealed in Jesus, and now we IN CHRIST are the very same LIVING EPISTLES that are read of all men.
Many people see and hear us, as they saw and heard Jesus, but NO ONE AT ANY TIME, HAS SEEN GOD. (Can Jesus be God then?)
1 Timothy 6:15,16 God the blessed and ONLY RULER, the King of kings and the Lord of lords, who ALONE IS IMMORTAL and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see”
Paul said God is IMMORTAL, which means God cannot DIE. But the SON did die for us all, didn’t he?
IS ANYONE GREATER THAN GOD? IS GOD GREATER THEN GOD?
John 14:28: “My Father IS GREATER than I.”
Jesus taught clearly that the FATHER is GREATER then he (JESUS) is. It pleased God to allow Jesus to suffer so he would learn obedience. If Jesus is God would he need to learn anything at all? Aaaah, I think Not!
WHO ARE WE SUPPOSED TO WORSHIP AND PRAY TO?
Acts 24:14: “I admit that I worship the God of our fathers . . . ”
Paul makes it very clear, I WORSHIP THE GOD OF OUR FATHERS (Who by the way, did not know Jesus as he was not yet born into the world, but was in the Father yet to be sent) The Fathers of Paul, worshipped the ONE TRUE GOD IF ISRAEL, not a Man named Jesus.
Acts 3:13: “The God of our fathers has glorified his SERVANT Jesus”
Here we see, the God of Paul’s Fathers, GLORIFIED, his “servant” Jesus. Jesus is the SERVANT/SON of God. Who God sent and Glorified. Jesus could do nothing of himself.
Paul makes it plain as day in this next passage.
1 Corinthians 8:6: “For us there is but ONE GOD, the Father . . . AND ONE Lord, Jesus Christ”
Shall I repeat this, for us (Paul’s and company) there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER…. AND (which means in addition to) ONE LORD JESUS.
God cannot be seen or known, the SON who God glorifies makes known the FATHER, AS THE FATHER is IN THE SON, reconciling the world unto himself.
WOULD GOD PRAY TO BE SAVED?
Heb 5:7 “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the ONE who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
Jesus clearly prayed to God to save him from Death. Jesus worshipped God… shouldn’t we? Shouldn’t we stop praying and worshipping a man, but know God ourselves.
LUKE 4:8 “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, THOU SHALT WORSHIP THE LORD THY GOD AND HIM ALONE SHALT THOU SERVE.”
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
In closing, I want to say I understand that for many this is a difficult study and for others, this is something that is already understood and it is clear as day. I also want to say, move on to some of my earlier essays, as this revelation is unfolding and there is MORE TO SEE.
Because Jesus may not be GOD alone, but that doesn’t also mean that God is the projector of Jesus while Jesus is the projection… Just as the conscious mind is part of the subconscious mind but far less sophisticated. GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU… then the YOU you believe yourself to be IN THE WORLD.
But the great falling away from the Truth has happened, and as hard as it was for me to sit and write this paper today, knowing it would offend so many, I couldn’t sit back and just allow what “Man teaches” to go unchallenged.
We must learn that there is no difference between Jesus and Us.
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
This is why Jesus said “I need to leave”. They were putting their faith in ONE MAN, and were not putting their faith in the GOD INSIDE thet One Man. The Man Jesus that he was bearing witness of and revealing God to those God had given him in the world.
There is so much for all of us to learn and God has not given us the spirit of fear, which I have to remind myself of every time I write one of these essays. As I know many of my friends and contemporaries may completely disagree and may even take offence.
We must ask ourselves are we WORSHIPING MAN (by calling Jesus God) and changing the likeness of the incorruptible God into that of a corruptible man.
Scripture says it is IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO BE TEMPTED… Was not JESUS tempted in the wilderness? If Jesus is God, how could he be tempted? And are not we all tempted and drawn away by our lusts?
James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
I also know, that no amount of biblical proof will change a heart that is blinded. For the “wise” of the world will call this foolish, but the foolish things of the world indeed confounds the Wise. And it is my prayer that we begin to see the ONE TRUE GOD.
So for those whose hearts are troubled by this essay, I pray you read and find comfort in this last passage of John.
John 14:1 Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; Believe ALSO in me.
Notice the word ALSO? 🙂
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Much love and peace to you all,
Jacob
http://www.JacobIsrael.org
JACOB'S LADDER 
Jacob seems you don’t realize that Jesus was the personality-son of man…but His Christ in him which is Spirit makes him as born from above..meaning he has become spirit and is the Son of God..
So therefore Jesus expresses the new state of his Christ Consciousness which gives him the status as the Son of the living God..” I and my Father are ONE.”
“He who has seen me has seen the Father.”
he meant .i.e. He who has formed the Christ within has seen the Father as I have… ..
Though Jesus the man said My Father is greater than I ..the I he speaks of here is his personality… the natural man.
But…as He Jesus the man has at the end realized his godhood.he realizes that he is one with the Father and there is no Separation between God and Christ.They are ONE.
Therefore Jesus man who became Jesus the Christ boldly states ..
.i.e. He is One with his Father …” “ I and my father are One..
In the OT ..it is said I say you are gods…all of you the children of the most high…etc.. and the scriptures can not be broken” …
so since Jesus achieved Christhood the Perfected State he is most def… One with God=God…and all others (natural man=adams, who follow him in the regeneration are/will also inherit the status of the Christs-Son of Gods= gods…
This means that the collective humanity as one body is the Sons of God …
It is true that “…as he is we are also in this world.”..as Jesus the man was so are we …but when we “regenerate …via the Second Birth we are changed to Christs/Spirits… namely children of the ONe Spirit we call Father God .
Adam was a living Soul…but he becomes a live giving Spirit…at the end…as God has live in himself ..so he has given his sons to have life in themselves as eternal beings..ie spirits..He is the vine we are the branches..etc..
All are One in the One only Power there is and ever will be ..God the Father and all his children as ONE.
The mystery of this is:
God is the one that came down to this third dimensional realm,..in the flesh of man..and buried himself/crucified himself in man, so that at the awakening of the Christ child,t within us,the spirit of Gods child the Christ is the one being born in us…i.e It is god himself that awakens in us as Christ the only begotten Son of God… .
the natural man/the ego personality is not the one that boasts to be god…but the Spirit man or the Christ man…He is God.
So Jesus is God and so are we at the very end of our soul journey to Perfection.
“Be You perfect as your father in heaven is Perfect”.
Genet,
Thank you for the comment. I will have to revisit this essay… as PERHAPS you did not catch what I was throwing down… First let me clear a few things up. Christ is NOT God… Christ literally means the ANOINTED OF GOD, or ANOINTING… Also, scripture tells us what this TITLE “Christ” is… Christ, the power and wisdom of God. So, WITHIN the MAN JESUS was the CHRIST. Just as we read that the WORD is in JESUS, that JESUS was the WORD, and just as we are also called the EPISTLES (WORDS) to be read. Jesus was the light or the world, so are we.
My intention with that paper, that I wrote many years ago was not to say that GOD was not one hundred percent within Jesus, and that Jesus was not one hundred percent within God… but that JESUS THE MAN ( as many people know him ) WAS NOT GOD… I thought I made that clear… It is impossible for MAN to be God, or the SON OF MAN… Just as it is impossible for the CONSCIOUS MIND to be the SUBCONSCIOUS MIND… sure they are one… but the SUBCONSCIOUS MIND IS FAR GREATER THAN THE CONSCIOUS MIND… I have made this clear in other essays as well…
That all being said, I do agree with you… WE ARE ALL ONE… we are on a JOURNEY TO PERFECTION… So sure you can say Jesus is God, just as you can say I am God… but TRULY that would be, in my opinion, a bit naive… instead, we must understand GOD IS ALL THERE IS… and we are unique parts of the whole, UNTIL we ALL COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH AND THE STATURE OF THE PERFECT MAN.
I will revisit the essay, to make sure that what I shared years ago is adequately explaining what I had hoped it would. Thank you again, Jacob
We read in Genesis 1 God created man in His image – this is the Son (Christ) which is spirit-man (both male & female are the same in the spirit). Flesh and blood man was not created until Chapter 2 – Adam. Spirit-man (Christ) was called Lord God; but flesh & blood man became alive when the Lord God (Christ) breathed his spirit into Adam. Now we have a flesh & blood man with the spirit within. God only created the spirit man – Christ (Lord God) created the flesh & blood man from dust. The spirit man lived with God since the beginning of the creation – we do not know how long the spirit man existed with God the Father prior to giving life to Adam. God existed before the creation – but Christ was birthed as spirit man as a part of this creation. We really need to understand the creation of man to understand that Christ is not God. He was the first son created in spirit during the creation – study the first couple chapters of Genesis to understand Christ – the spirit man – the Lord God! The Lord God (Christ) is who the Old Testament is written about – the OT is a revelation of the Lord God (Spirit-man) coming in the flesh as Jesus Christ.
Check out this short page that discusses the ‘Aleph and the Tav’: the Alpha and the Omega, and how this shows that Yeshua is being identified as ‘God’:
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Jesus_and_the_Aleph-Bet/jesus_and_the_aleph-bet.html
I know Mark Biltz of the above video mentions this, but I haven’t found the video with it yet. This article is interesting though. I’m in correspondance with the ‘Ancient Hebrew Research Center’. The guy who runs it, does not believe in the trinity. He believes that Yeshua is ‘Elohim’ but not Yahweh, so I’m ‘testing’ these things two-fold: yourself and him. I’ve just messaged him regarding the ‘Aleph and Tav’ so it will be interesting to see what he says. I’ve messaged his Facebook, so you can see the comments on there. Bye for now…Catherine
What do you make of this short video with respect to Yeshua’s divinity? You only need to watch the first 2 minutes:
Catherine, sorry it took me so long to watch this. I personally don’t agree with the man’s interpretation. But I will say that I will look more into it. Because it does sound interesting, thanks for sharing it. As far as the the divinity of Yeshua/Jesus, the scriptures are really clear on this, he is no more or less divine than everyone of us, he just had the full understanding of that, we don’t yet. Much love to you and yours, Jacob
Thanks for taking a look at it Jacob. It is indeed interesting. I’ve emailed the guy’s web site for a list of examples that he gives for how Yeshua is identified in the ancient Hebrew pictographs. He cites many but they’re dotted here and there in some of the videos I’ve watched, so I can’t remember them. I’ll come back to you with some amazing examples, once they respond to my email, or if I can find some in the mean time. God bless Catherine
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Who is speaking in the book of Revelation? God (Revelation 1:11)
Who was asked to write what he was seeing? John (Revelation 1:9)
What are the descriptions of God?
1. “These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks” – to the angel of the church of Ephesus (Revelation 2:1)
2. “These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive” – to the angel of the church in Smyrna (Revelation 2:8)
3. “These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges” – to the angel of the church in Pergamos (Revelation 2:12)
4. “These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass” – to the angel of the church in Thyatira (Revelation 2:18)
5. “These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars” – to the angel of the church in Sardis (Revelation 3:1)
6. “These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth” – to the angel of the church in Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7)
7. “These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God” – to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans (Revelation 3:14)
Why is the name of Jesus in Revelation? Because He is God Himself. God said in Revelation 22:13, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.” This repeats what He said when He introduced Himself in Revelation 1:11. Three verses later, in Revelation 22:16, God revealed who He is. He is Jesus. The verse states: “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
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If you say that God is God the Father and that the Holy Spirit is also God, then you have two Gods. Isn’t it that there is only one true God (John 17:3)? And that God is a spirit (John 4:24)? Why is it in Matthew 28:19, Jesus as a spirit, said “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”? You see, only one name. Singular. Because there is only one God who made Himself into three: as the Father who spoke in the Old Testament, as the Son Jesus Christ who spoke in the New Testament, and as the Holy Spirit who speaks to us (plural), tape recorded. Who is the spirit in the physical body who we call Jesus Christ?
If you want to go to Heaven, you have to believe that Jesus Christ is true God AND true man and you ought to have works, for James in 2:26 said, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” You will not enter the kingdom of God by faith alone.
Jesus said in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” To go to God in Heaven, one has to believe in Jesus and pass through Him.
20111012.2355
Thank you for your quick reply. Jesus is true God AND true man. Jesus has a father and a mother. Jesus is called the Son of God because His father is God (Luke 1:35). He is called the Son of man because His mother, Mary, was a human being (Luke 2:7).
Who was speaking in the book of Revelation? Who was asked to write what he was seeing? Why is the name of Jesus in Revelation?
The description of God is in Revelation 2:1, 8, 12, 18; 3:1, 7, 13. Who is the “Son of God” referred to in Revelation 2:18? Who is “which was dead, and is alive” in Revelation 2:8?
Aristeo, I agree Jesus is the Son of God, as every single one of us are also children of God. The point I want people to wrap their minds around is that you and they are no different from Jesus, the same as he did we do, and greater things. We too must take up the cross, we too are lights in this world, we too are God’s children. We are given the name of Christ, we are the body of Christ, we have the mind of Christ, (who are we?) … We need to take our eyes off others “outside of us” for salvation and find the salvation that is only found within us, the Love of God. Peace to you friend
Thank you for writing this article. My prayer is this will reveal the truth of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to many! I was saved as a teenager; but the “church” turned me into a rebellious teenager as they could not answer these questions. I could not understand the “trinity”. They could not prove it by the Bible – I had to have “faith” in man’s words. I did not discover this truth until I started seeking the truth for myself through reading the Bible & prayer. God revealed to me as He did when I was a teenager – the “trinity” is a false teaching! God is real to me now! The Bible did not make sense to me with the trinity teaching – if Jesus is God, why is he talking to himself – Jesus didn’t need to pray if he is God – once God reveals the truth, the Bible comes alive – it starts to make sense! Thank you, again. BTW, I have lost many “christian” friends because I refuse the trinity teaching – I’m a cult believer! I’m going to share this article on FB & I’m sure if they read it (which they usually don’t read my shares), they will unfriend me!
Thanks so much for your comment Irene! I and many others have been where you are, but for every friend you lose, you will find a genuine friend that loves you for you. You are not a cult believer, you are simply a truth seeker, and those that seek God MUST SEEK THE TRUTH, in truth and spirit. Don’t worry about what you lose for the truth, think of all you gain, and I know this is something you already have found and it is a great and wonderful thing. We are all at different places in our walks, but I have learned one thing, if a person doesn’t love, accept, forgive, and encourage, they haven’t really gotten to know God yet, but it is my belief that even they still will. Keep shining that light Irene, and don’t forget to subscribe if you liked the article many more are on their way, and it’s free 🙂 Peace to you and yours, Jacob
20111012.1015
Jesus is God. Please read the book of Revelation only. The answer is there. When Jesus prayed to the Father, He is demonstrating to us how to have faith in God. While Jesus was still alive, He always showed that there is God the Father, because He is God the Son. When He was to depart, He sent the God the Holy Spirit (John 16:7). Who do you think is the Holy Spirit?
Aristeo, along with the idea of Man being God, is another false man made teaching called the trinity. This teaching was long held in pagan tradition as well as mythology. It’s why many consider Mary to be the “mother of God”… The Holy Spirit is God, who is Holy and is Spirit, it is the same spirit of truth known as the word of God, which was revealed in Jesus the man and is also revealed in us. Jesus spoke of the Comforter, and then said, the comforter was sent in his name, and then said I will come to you, because Jesus understood and taught the UNITY of God’s spirit which is in all, through all, and is all. So no Jesus is not God, but God was in Jesus, as God is our life hidden in Christ (God’s power and wisdom). There is no “God the Son” that isn’t even mentioned in Scripture. Jesus was pretty clear, when he said ” I go to my father and your father, I go to My God and your God” – God doesn’t have a God, God simply is what God is. Christ is the express Image of God, meaning the Power and Wisdom of God is how God is revealed to humanity through those who share this. Thanks for the comment, and I understand that many people believe this way, so please don’t take offense, I simply see things differently and I believe there is ample evidence in the scriptures to support this belief. One must do more than simply believe what others teach them or share, they must seek the truth for themselves. I encourage you to do the same, don’t take my word for it, your religious leaders word for it, go within and let God be true. Peace
Thank you for your informative article. Having studied and prayed about Jesus’ ‘identity’, for the past 25 years I’m still unsure, but tend to lean towards Jesus being God’s Son, NOT God the Son. Is it really feasible that we have Paul and the apostles clarifying Big subjects like circumcision, but no one had a problem with Jews claiming God was a man called Jesus? Where’s the controversy in the Greek scriputures, or even a hint that there was one? This seems very strange. Even today, orthodox Jews reel at the idea of a ‘trinity’, which I don’t believe is taught anywhere in scripture.
The scriptures that prevent me from deciding 100% against Christ’s divinity are:
Thomas’s statement ‘my lord and my God’.
The Alpha and Omega statements in Revelation.
The ‘I am’ sayings.
I don’t think anyone’s eternal salvation is dependant upon their understanding of who Jesus is. Can you blame someone who was born into a ‘church’ who teaches the trinity and whose Bibles have translated verses to teach it? I’ve asked God to show me the truth, but He still doesn’t clarify matters for me, so I remain confused and unsure. I’ve asked God to clarify teachings such as ‘hell’ and ”universal reconciliation through Christ’ but I’m still unsure, so much so, I don’t even know if I believe it all anymore. There’s so much confusion and ‘silence’ from God………
Catherine,
I so love your honesty and ability to read something and not condemn it even if it doesn;’t seem to click. Like you I KNOW I don’t have all the answers so I continue pressing in. The scriptures make it pretty clear, God was IN Jesus the man. The Flesh man, the Ego Man is never God, but God is hidden within the Flesh Man. God is within us all. Now on the issues of Hell and Universal reconsiliation, my good news the list of religious ideas goes on and on, how could anyone not become overwhelmed. But YOU ARE IN THE BEST PLACE THERE IS,,,, saying “I DON’T KNOW!” – Pride keeps so many from seeing things. But when you don’t know, when you say, God’s ways are above mine that is when the flood gates will begin to open. Where you are is the same place that I have been, the apostle Paul has been (remember when he fell off his high horse and was blind) all symbolism of thinking you knew God then getting knocked down and realizing you know nothing at all… and a CHILD leads him and soon the scales (pride) falls from his eyes (understanding) and he SAW (UNDERSTOOD) – Here is the good news Catherine, YOU CAN’T FAIL! You will learn what you need to learn, when you need to learn it, no sooner or later, but when you need to… In the meantime, use Love as your litmus test, let Love be your guide, if it isn’t Love it isn’t God. Peace and please feel free to thumb through articles on here, I have written on many of these subjects. Hope they help, peace Jacob
Question for anyone who can help. What do you do with Isaiah 9:6? 6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
This one seems to say the Son is God?
Hey Brandon,
First of all, if the SON (which simply denotes something birthed within us) is given and the government will be upon his shoulder. It’s a good call that we will be lead from within by that New Child with us. The big question that no one really is tackling is, if the son (birthed mindset/spirit/child) is puts everything beneath the Father, so God is all in all, then that means, all there is IS God. Sort of like that cup of water taken from the ocean, it still ocean but it is not the entire ocean. That’s sort of what I see Christ as, God within Us, leading us, guiding us, as us. Another way of looking at this is, If a dog has children they are dogs, a monkey gives birth to a monkey, a human being gives birth to a human being, but when it comes to God we don’t say God gives birth to a God, do we? Even though the scriptures call us gods. So it is an interesting question, one that unfortunately I am don’t fully understand, as I am in the “son” mode (That I understand) – I haven’t yet “gone to the Father” as Jesus said… meaning I haven’t taken that leap of becoming Father as well… Even though I understand, we are all ONE. And if ONE than all there is IS God. But as far as that scripture ONLY APPLYING to Jesus, I must tell you that isn’t the case… UNTO US (humanity) a SON is GIVEN (birthed within). Much love man Jacob
Jacob, you are going to burn in hell for your herecy. Kidding. Good thing God is so good, He wouldn’t even think to burn His own children.
I do have to disagree with your concept of Jesus’ deity, or lack there of. Let me just say that I am fully open to new understanding on this and all things, and I don’t think it really ultimately matters if we know exactly the nature of God, Jesus. I also agree with most of your stuff otherwise, but as of now I don’t fully see eye to eye on this.
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Young’s Literal Translation
1 And I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all to Moses were baptized in the cloud, and in the sea; 3 and all the same spiritual food did eat, 4 and all the same spiritual drink did drink, for they were drinking of a spiritual rock following them, and the rock was the Christ; 5 but in the most of them God was not well pleased, for they were strewn in the wilderness,
6 and those things became types of us, for our not passionately desiring evil things, as also these did desire. 7 Neither become ye idolaters, as certain of them, as it hath been written, ‘The people sat down to eat and to drink, and stood up to play;’ 8 neither may we commit whoredom, as certain of them did commit whoredom, and there fell in one day twenty-three thousand; 9 neither may we tempt the Christ, as also certain of them did tempt, and by the serpents did perish;
Here we have the cloud, the rock which was the Christ, which gave them spiritual drink
Also note that they tempted the Christ, and they perished by the serpents
Num 21
4 And they journey from mount Hor, the way of the Red Sea, to compass the land of Edom, and the soul of the people is short in the way, 5 and the people speak against God, and against Moses, ‘Why hast thou brought us up out of Egypt to die in a wilderness? for there is no bread, and there is no water, and our soul hath been weary of this light bread.
6 And Jehovah sendeth among the people the burning serpents, and they bite the people, and much people of Israel die;
Here they tempted God and perished by serpents, In 1 Cor they tempted Christ and perished by serpents
‘Eze 1
4As I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in the midst of the fire. 5Within it there were figures resembling four living beings. And this was their appearance: they had human form. 6Each of them had four faces and four wings.
a cloud with flashing fire, hmm sounds familiar
also note the cherubim
And above the expanse that is over their head, as an appearance of a sapphire stone, is the likeness of a throne, and on the likeness of the throne a likeness, as the appearance of man upon it from above. 27 And I see as the colour of copper, as the appearance of fire within it round about, from the appearance of his loins and upward, and from the appearance of his loins and downward, I have seen as the appearance of fire, and brightness is to it round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in a cloud in a day of rain, so is the appearance of the brightness round about.
a stone, that is a throne
something like fire, like the appearance of a man, the likeness of the glory of the LORD
Exo 40:34
Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.
Deut 31:14
The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud that stood above the door of the tent.
back to EZE 2
1Then He said to me (the one in the cloud), “Son of man, stand on your feet that I may speak with you!” 2As He spoke to me the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet; and I heard Him speaking to me. 3Then He said to me, “Son of man, I am sending you to the sons of Israel, to a rebellious people who have rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day. 4“I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD.’ 5“As for them, whether they listen or not—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6“And you, son of man, neither fear them nor fear their words, though thistles and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions; neither fear their words nor be dismayed at their presence, for they are a rebellious house. 7“But you shall speak My words to them whether they listen or not, for they are rebellious.
8“Now you, son of man, listen to what I am speaking to you; do not be rebellious like that rebellious house. Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you.” 9Then I looked, and behold, a hand was extended to me; and lo, a scroll was in it. 10When He spread it out before me, it was written on the front and back, and written on it were lamentations, mourning and woe.
The people rebelled against Him, and Thus says the Lord God
Oh yeah and he extended a hand
Rev 22:1
Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb
spiritual drink coming from the throne
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men,
For from Him, through Him, and to Him are all things (God here)
The word tabernacled among us, the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle, the likeness of a son of man in the cloud which is the glory of the Lord. That “man” sits on a stone throne, above the cherubim, the arc of the covenant was the throne of God with cherubim underneath where God would “sit”. Out of that throne came spirtual water, that Rock is the Christ.
“This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, because he existed before me.’”
Many times the Word of the Lord has physical shape, he touches, puts hand on shoulder, has a sword, has feet.
So glad I got to read this at lunch. I do believe “God” has physical shape, touches, etc… because we have physical shape, touch etc… I guess I’m not really clear on what we disagree about. I am greater than the man I used to be, the one that comes after me will be greater than me. Our first nature in the world we are ignorant, but the ONE that comes (is revealed) after the natural/earthy man is Christ (reveals the power and wisdom of God) – In that day, he/she will understand “I can do nothing of myself” – my ego (who I think I am) is no longer at the healm. Peace to you and thank you for such insights. Jacob
ANOTHER wonderful ALL all consuming truth~~ ;0)
Angie,
Thank you so much for your encouraging words! I am so happ these article are clicking into place for you. It means the world to me and the some. peace and I hope you always leave a thought or two behind. peace Jacob
Revelation 1:8 I Am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God Created….He is coming back as our Judge, cause He walked with us in the flesh and took on all sin and knows what we have gone through. God the Father cannot. For He is an all consuming Fire. God. The Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. Jesus was 100% human and 100% deity. God became flesh for US. Because He loved us how else will He be come back as Judge? We are all on probation and we need to look at ourselves first and make sure we are standing with the Word, to be rigtheous before Him.
Hey Emily, I agree with most of what you said. I do see it and understand it differently but that’s okay. Consider this, Jesus said “As He is so are we”, “You are the Light of this world:”, “greater works then these shall you do”, “That they may be ONE as We are One”, and so on and so on. Jesus made it clear as he did we must do. the “first born among many siblings”… here is my question to you. Are you greater or worse than your siblings? Or would you say, that you and your siblings are of equal standing in your parents eyes? My point is, don’t make a God out of One man, when that One Man is Everyone = ONE. You are the CHRIST’S BODY, the CHRIST’S NAME is given to you, you put on the Mind of Christ. You are His Body, His Thoughts, and you are called by His name… WHO ARE YOU? Consider that? My point is, if you don’t ENTER the SHEEPGATE you can’t be SHEPHARD, you’ll remain a Sheep. But the SHEEP that enter the Sheepgate, the DOOR (CHRIST/GLORY), YOU, YOU, YOU become the SHEPHARD of the SHEEP. As he is so are we, as he did so must we, for we and he are the same! WE ARE ONE! And there is no way anyone can separate ONE from ONE. There simply is ONE.
Wow!..it looks like I missed an age old debate…
Too bad…Any scripture ANYONE wishes to use as proof positive that Jesus is God can be shown its true intent which will not include a reference to Jesus being God…The shotgun approach that most pro Jesus is God believers is a strategy to overwhelm the opponent…But if anyone wishes to post their best scripture one at a time…It is easily and I mean easily rebuked as a false belief that jesus is God…The whole book of revelation that most like to use to show Jesus is God can be wiped out by one scripture…LoL….when you know the Truth no lie can stand against it…Lets not forget in Hebrews where the pro Jesus is God believers will poinjt out that the Son is called God…heh….I mean it is comical that you let the carnal mind antagonize you in such a basic understanding that one must have before he can grasp much more of anything else…I might be typing in the wind but I leave you with one scripture…Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ….Now I ask…if God shed His divinity like the popular Jesus is God believers like to say…then why did God make Him those things again? How does God shed His divinity yet can still make Himself both Lord and Christ but has no power or wisdom to do so cuz that is what Christ is? The scripture gymnastics that must be learned to present the false belief that Jesus is God….is a travesty…
I could debate you theologically but I simply say your teachings are heresy and demonic in nature. If you deny the Son the Father will deny you. See you on the left.
BTW, I would never deny Christ, in fact I embrace the SON more than most do. “Those who enter the sheepgate the same become the Shephard of the sheep.” “It is no longer I that live but Christ” — There is only ONE WAY to the FATHER and that is THROUGH the SON! And every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Christ is Lord to the GLORY of God the FATHER…. every thought that is not rooted in truth (those on the left) are cast away. So ONLY Christ remains. Peace
T.J.
On the subject of Jesus either being, or not being God, neither you, nor Jacob show any sound understanding of this subject. I also see that neither one of you guys have tried to debunk what I had said on the subject. What does it matter what you guys think, your both close minded, and blind? Be happy in your fantasy world.
Alveno, I rarely have time to comment here, I am so glad you have offered your ideas and beliefs. None of us learn by just blindly believing anything. So please don’t take offense if I don’t try and prove you wrong, because God’s way are above ours, and you may be right. For me, this is the truth I know, it offers me a great deal of peace and hope. And believe me when I say, daily I seek God whether these things be true or not, as we all should. So please keep coming back and offering your ideas and views, if I don’t respond because of lack of time, Im sure others will. But mainly because your voice will be heard and others will have a chance to read it. That is why I don’t censor these comments. Some would just delete any view that opposes their own, but I know this line of thinking brings no one further in their journey toward Christ. Read my latest article, we may differ on some ideas, but I know you will benefit from this last article. Peace to you my new friend. Jacob
AMEN! I can’t agree with you more TJ. 🙂 And I definately don’t know it all…but God IN me does and it is that spirit(thought) we should listen to.
Alveno,
I am sorry if what I said offended you. I truly meant no harm. I fully agree with you that the “word” was not created but existed with God before time.
Scripture tells us that the word was with God and the word was God and the word became flesh. So, yes, the word is God. It is the express image and likeness of God and it becomes flesh by being born in US.
The story of Jesus is truly our story. I am not saying that a man named Jesus never existed. Maybe he did, but for me, that does not matter. My faith does not rely on a literal Jesus being born by immaculate conception, and then being crucified on a wooden cross some 2000 years ago. Sure, the story is emotionally moving, but the story itself does absolutely nothing to change a person on the inside where it counts. The true virgin birth, crucifixion, and resurrection all take place inside of US as God has ordained. This is the only way we can truly be changed.
So, in a sense, Jesus was God because Christ, who is the word of God and is God, was born in him. The man of flesh and blood called Jesus was no more, he had become Christ, the son of God.
In closing, I do not wish to engage into an ongoing debate. I have been there and done that and nothing good ever comes of it. The fact that you have come to this site to begin with tells me that God is drawing you to the truth. I am not saying that Jacob is all-knowing or anything crazy like that, but God has certainly raised him up so He can speak to us through him. I know that what Jacob writes is truly coming from his Father which is also our Father. I can tell you that God has been drawing me to the truth for a long time now and in the process I have met many people who I now know are blinded and Jacob is not one of those people. You will not find many out there that will take the time to respond back to you unless it is to rip your beliefs apart, so give God thanks that He brought you here. You are here for a reason.
God bless.
20100225.0750
Jesus is true God AND true man. The uncorrupted book of Revelation reveals the Jesus is that true God. Please read my write-up on this at
http://peacecrusader.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/is-jesus-christ-true-god-and-true-man/.
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo of the Holy Spirit
Greetings Friends,
Without a doubt there is a great dividing line between those who acknowledge that Jesus is God and those who don’t. It is a separation of those who are practicing idolatry and those who worship the true God. In the spirit dimension it is one of the identifying characteristics of the heavenly realms vs. the Grey realms
I will not present a rebuttal to your argument that Jesus is not the one true God. The knowledge of God comes only by revelation. God himself reveals himself or conceals himself in accordance to his own purposes.
One thing I can relate, is that I found the Pentecostal Oneness teaching to be helpful in putting a solid scriptural background in support of showing that Jesus is the one true God.
As the Spirit moves and leads you, no doubt you will come across this set of teachings. I found that they give good and satisfactory answers to all the arguments that you posted.
God Bless you all in your continued journey.
…………Jul Must
Jul Must,
No dividing line—
but please say you are kidding about this Pentecostal nonsense. I don’t mean that in a mean way.
*I just want to add, if Jul Must decides to say something religious, judgemental, or ‘mean’ I hope I don’t necessarily ‘deserve’ it, but also I hope y’all will get my ‘back’— Oh, to be young. Most of all, I know Jul Must doesn’t really want to say anything judgemental, religious, or mean in response at all & really just wants to know the Truth and be set Free like we all do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sincerely,
AG
I have already posted a few other times pertaining to Jesus being God. I acknowledge that just because I believe a certain way does not make it true for everyone else, but I have shared my beliefs about this with others on his blog because I want others to have this light as well.
To begin, I just want to state that I am no one special. I am not a know it all, and I have no desire to point fingers and call out others who I feel are wrong in their beliefs. What I am is a truth seeker. I have long struggled with my own carnal mind for a very long time and have found it to be exhausting as I am sure so many others have. The one thing that has kept me going is the small voice inside of me that keeps telling me to keep moving forward, don’t stop.
You see, we are all on the same journey whether we realize it yet or not. This journey is full of ups and downs, and often times, many pot holes. There are pearls of truth everywhere, though, even in the places we would least expect to find them. These pearls of truth are like small pieces to a humungous gig-saw puzzle. God gives us a piece here and a piece there. It may not always be an edge piece and it may not always be a piece that locks into place with a piece we already have, but he gives it to us nonetheless and eventually, we will see the puzzle beginning to take form as we get more pieces from God, our Father.
I hope to give you another piece that I believe in my heart of hearts God has given me. Okay, here it goes. I feel that the reason many people believe Jesus to be God is because they have not yet been given the understanding that Jesus the man and Christ are not the same things. Yes, Jesus was called Christ, or more often, Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus, and for good reason. The good reason for this is that Jesus the man became Christ, but he did ot start out as Christ. Before he became Christ, Jesus was a carnal human just like you and me. I know this may be hard to accept, but it is true.
I know the gospels state that Jesus was born by way of a virgin birth, but we need to look at scripture not through our carnal mindset, but through a spiritual mindset. God is spirit, His words are spirit, and He must be worshipped in spirit and in truth. Scripture is about spiritual things, not carnal, physical things. This does not mean that there was not a Jesus the man that physically existed some 2000 years ago. I believe there was and I believe many of the stories in scripture actually took place, but the real pearls of truth are not found on the surface of these stories, they are found much deeper.
So, with that being said, I believe that Jesus the man was born naturally into this physical realm just like you and me. I believe he was a carnal human just like you and me. However, what made Jesus different from you and me, and the only thing, is that God appointed him to be the first born of Christ of all of us. That is the difference.
Jesus in the flesh was not the son of God, he became the son of God when Christ was born inside of him. Christ then crucified Jesus’ carnal mind and Jesus then passed from death to life and became Christ. Paul said to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life.
Jesus the man did not taste death for everyone, and his crucifixion has not saved us from our sins. Christ is who has tasted death for everyone and Christ’ sacrifice that was made from the foundation of the world as the slain lamb of God is what will save us from our sins, not the physical crucifixion of the man Jesus.
Now, do not get me wrong, Jesus the man is now Christ. We are all destined to become Christ. The seed of Christ is in all of us just as it was in Jesus the man. The only thing different about Jesus the man was that he was the first to be re-born. This is the true virgin birth, that of Christ being born in us. The true crucifixion is that of the carnal mind, our old nature. The true resurrection is that of Christ in us, our new nature. You see, our salvation does not come from something external, it comes from within. Jesus said the Kingdom of God will not come with observation, the Kingdom of God is within.
So, there is God, who is the Father of us all, then there is the Son, which is Christ and is what we are all destined to become. Christ is the express image and likeness of God the Father. We as spirit are our Father’s children. That is already true now because we all came from Him and we will all return to Him. But here is the key, we start out as a child of God but we eventually become the Son of God which is Christ, which is what Jesus the man did some 2000 years ago.
Just as in Adam all have died, that is we have all spiritually died, in Christ, all will be made alive, that is spiritually alive. Adam was sown a physical body(carnal nature) but Jesus was made a quickening spirit(Christ). Paul said to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life. The mystery hidden from us for ages is the truth of Christ in us. Paul said it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. The “I” Paul spoke of was his old carnal nature or carnal mind. His new nature is Christ. So, Adam represents all who spiritually died, which is all of us, and Christ represents all who will be made spiritually alive. We will all be part of the body of Christ with Jesus being the head of the body because he was the first born as foreordained by God. And what does the name of Jesus mean? God saves.
20100211.1255
Sorry. My error in the link I cited. It should be http://peacecrusader.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/is-jesus-christ-true-god-and-true-man/.
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo of the Holy Spirit
A little off subject, Aristeo C. Fernando & whomever, but what do you think about this verse- “he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars (Revelation 3:1)— ‘the seven Spirits of God.’? Been thinking about this verse for a while now…
20100211.1040
Dear Amanda,
Revelation 2:1 states: “Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; “These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;”
This is the description of God said to the angel of the church of Ephesus – “he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks”.
Revelation 1:20 states: “The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches; and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.”
Who are the churches? WE are the churches. The kind of church we are is described in Revelation 2 and 3.
What is that spirit? That is the breath of life from God why we are alive. That is what makes us different from one who is dead inside a coffin. When we “die”, Eccesiastes 12:7 states: “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo of the Holy Spirit
Motto: pro aris et focis (for the sake of, or defense of, religion and home)
http://aristean.org/ and http://peacecrusader.wordpress.com/
“The Internet is mightier than the sword.”
20100210.1145
Would you like to read what I wrote about Jesus being God using the book of Revelation? Its address is http://peacecrusader.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/is-jesus-christ-true-man-and-true-man/.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo of the Holy Spirit
Motto: pro aris et focis (for the sake of, or defense of, religion and home)
http://aristean.org/ and http://peacecrusader.wordpress.com/
“The Internet is mightier than the sword.”
and yes Jesus’ body died on the cross but He overcame death & his Spirit descended into ‘hell’ and ministered to the spirits there and then He appeared to the disciples (etc???) in resurrected body for some days and they didn’t exactly recognize Him before ascending into heaven right???
Haha, confused, please let me know if you can!!!!!!!
The death being spoken of here is not physical death, it is spiritual death. Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. Do you think he was speaking of dead corpses burying dead corpses? He was actually speaking of the spiritually dead burying the physically dead.
We all have become spiritually dead. This is explained in Genesis in the allegory of Adam and Eve. When we partook of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, we died, that is we spiritually died. You see, we are not our physical bodies. We are spirit because we have been created in the image of our Father who is also spirit, therefore, the only death that pertains to the true us(spirit) is that of spiritual death.
I believe that is what Jesus overcame, but truly, Jesus the man did not overcome anything. Christ overcame death for Jesus the man just as Christ will overcome death for all of us.
Where scripture says that the spirit of Jesus descended into hell and he ministered to the spirits there, I believe that is speaking of his ministry right here on earth! I know it may be a hard pill to swallow, but if the true death is spiritual death, which Jesus said it was, and the place of death is called Hades, which is commonly referred to as Hell, as Jesus also said it was, then we are already in Hades/Hell. This physical realm that we fell into when we spiritually died is Hades or Hell if you prefer to call it. This is where Jesus made proclamation to the spirits. This physical realm and our physical existence that we mistakenly call life is not our true reality or our true identity. Our true home is the spiritual realm and our true identity is Christ.
As far as Jesus appearing to the disciples in resurrected form, I believe he did. Again, I believe the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus the man historically happened, but the story also contains much deeper spiritual truths. I believe the story of Jesus’ crucifixion represents the crucifixion of the carnal mind that we will all have to experience in our due time as foreordained by God. Flesh in scripture represents the carnal nature of man or the carnal mind, so when Jesus’ body of flesh was crucified, it was symbolic of the crucifixion of the carnal mind. The resurrection of Jesus was not that of Jesus the man, but that of Christ. Jesus the man became Christ, therefore, Jesus the man, after his crucifixion, was no more.
God, our father, has placed the seed of Christ within all of us. This is how Christ has tasted death for all of us. In due time, the seed of Christ will be fertilized and Christ will be born in us. When this happens, the carnal mind will undergo crucifixion until it is completely consumed leaving only Christ. That is why Paul said it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me. The “I” Paul was speaking of was his old carnal nature. Paul had become a new creature that is Christ, which is his and our true identity to begin with.
As far as the resurrected body of Christ, in the story of Jesus’ resurrection, I do not know. I can only assume that once our change is fully complete, we will also have a body that is capable of experiencing both the spiritual realm and the physical realm. That is why Jesus or Christ was able to eat and speak with his disciples after the resurrection, but he could also walk through walls and when the 40 days were finished, he went back to the spiritual realm which is our true home.
I hope this helps!
Hi!~ Thanks so much. I kept thinking (I live in France, like to learn languages) that Christ means ‘messiah’ (anointed one) in Greek… right?? Also, this is kind of school assignmentish of me to ask, but would yuou please tell me what your ‘definition’ (in words- ah! words) of Christ would be– is it ‘image of God’ ‘quickening spirit’ or something like that? You said a few times that Jesus became Christ– so was curious.
Grace & Peace, Love in Christ,
Amanda
Amanda,
I believe that “Christ” means “annointed one”, but Christ is also the express image and likeness of God and is also referred to as a quickening spirit.
Christ is truly all of these things. In Genesis, God says let us make man in our image and likeness. Christ is the express image and likeness of God and is what man is destined to become. So that is why I said Jesus became Christ; he was made into the express image and likeness of God the Father in Heaven which is Christ.
The quickening spirit means a life giving spirit, which is exactly what Christ does. When Christ is born in us, the carnal mind will begin its crucifixion until it is completely destroyed and Christ will be fully alive in us. It is at that moment that we will have been resurrected by passing from death to life by the power of Christ in us.
Last but certainly not least, Christ is also called the son of God. Again, the terms annointed one, quickening spirit, and son of God are all the same thing which is Christ.
The way I look at the over-all process is that we all begin our journey as children of God our Father. We are His children because He created us in His image which is spirit and planted the seed of Christ in us to be born in us in due time. We all partook of the tree of knowledge of good and evil which cause our spiritual death and made us carnal. We had to become carnal to experience good and evil which is a requirement to being made into the likeness of God. When Adam and Eve ate off that tree, God said that man had become like him to know good and evil, so obviously this is why we are here, to know good and evil, and the only to know anything is by directly experiencing it.
At some point in our journey through death, God will have that seed of Christ to be fertilized and finally born within us. When this happens, the process of crucifying the flesh(carnal nature/carnal mind) will begin. Once the process is complete, Christ will be fully alive within us. We will no longer be a mere child of God, but we will be the son of God.
I hope I have not been too redundant in my comments. It is sometimes hard to explain. However, if it is easier, think of it this way. Say you have a baby. That baby is in your image, that is, that baby shares your dna, genes, and many physical traits. However, that baby is not yet in your likeness, meaning that baby does not think, act, and feel the same as you do. If it is your desire for your baby to grow up to be like you, then you will provide a means for that to happen, and if you are successful, that baby will mature into a child, and eventually an adult and will be of the same mind as you.
This is what God is doing with us. We are already in His image which is spirit and are His children. The end result is for us to be in His likeness too, which is Christ, the son of God.
Well, I hope throughout my rambling I have given you the answers you were looking for. As you can tell, I am not the best at explaining these things, but I hope I have managed to help you some nonetheless!
God bless
Hi Jacob,
So, Jesus Christ is definitely Lord & Savior, but maybe not God??? (‘give thanks to God the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus for all things”)
He had a will right— (‘not my will but Yours be done’)???
Thanks!!!!!!!,
Sincerely,
In Christ,
Manda
Jacob says that Jesus isn’t God. That God was just in him. The following verses will prove that Jesus is God. After Jacob reads this paper I would like him to publish a public admission that he was in error
Preliminary discussion.
Before there was time, and space, before there was a beginning, there was God. God has always existed. God exists outside of time, so the word “beginning” becomes meaningless. Time was created. The physical world includes time. Both were created simultaneously. God must have formulated a plan, but without the consideration of time, the concept of when he did that also becomes meaningless. God created all things. He always existed!! The word was with him, or part of him from before the beginning. The word was not created. It existed with God, as part of his person. When creation started (the invisible, and visible) the word was already there. If the word was not created, and was already present with God, and is part of God. Then the word is also God. We can not separate the word from God, it is a description of God, his personality, and plan.
God didn’t have to create. He desired to create. He desires companionship. Where others were created, Jesus instead came forth, or was born. Jesus “IS”, before there was a creation. We are told that he created the universe, and everything else. It doesn’t matter whether he was still inside the Father, or not. When the father created, therefore the son created. But before the son came forth, God could not be consider a father. Therefore God was just God. Again because of the lack of time, because of the lack of linear events, or events that move in a straight line, it is impossible to determine, or grasp when these events happened.
The Bible uses the terms Lord, or God interchangeably for the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Because they one. The terms Father, and Son are used to describe ministries, administrations, and the Government of the Godhead.
Col 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
NIV
Because Philippians chapter 2 verses 6-7 were mentioned by several commenter’s I decided to start there. I looked at several translations. Among which were The King James, Basic English, Darby, English Standard, The Literal translation, Young’s literal translation, American standard, Revised Standard, New American Standard, Living Bible, NIV, and Weymouth New testament. Of all the translations you can group the NIV, ASV, RSV,NASV together as how they read, and all the others are grouped together as to how they read. There are four representative translations below. The NIV group are the most difficult to read, but basically mean the same as all the others. All the translations that I examined state that Jesus was God. All state that Jesus emptied himself of his God power, authority, and benefits to take on the form of man. To make himself weak, helpless. To humble himself. Even unto death. Examine the meaning of each Greek word in those verses, and you will come to the same conclusion.
Phil 2:5-8 Your attitude should be the kind that was shown us by Jesus Christ, 6 who, though he was God, did not demand and cling to his rights as God, 7 but laid aside his mighty power and glory, taking the disguise of a slave and becoming like men. 8 And he humbled himself even further, going so far as actually to die a criminal’s death on a cross.( Living Bible-TLB)
Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was
made in the likeness of men: (King James)
Phil 2:6-7 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.( NIV)
Phil 2:6-7 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped. 7 Nay, He stripped Himself of His glory, and took on Him the nature of a bondservant by becoming a man like other men. (Weymouth translation)
.
(Jacob’s post)
never once did Jesus say he was God. He called himself two things “The Son of Man” and “The Son of God”
(Jacob’s post)
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, (Jacob’s post)
(Rebuttal)
The rest of the verse (john 1:18) says “except for Jesus, who also declared him”.
In the following verses Adam , and Eve heard Lord God walk in the garden. If God was only a spirit (which can not be seen or heard), then man would not be able to hear him either. Would a spirit take a walk? Could you hear a spirit step on leaves, or brush back the foliage? If God the Spirit was calling to Adam, would he say where are you? Wouldn’t the father know? Unless his question was rhetorical. That’s also possible. But it is also possible that the post incarnate Christ, in physical form was walking in the garden. Being limited by his physical sense’s he couldn’t see Adam. He knew that Adam was going to eat of the tree, and he knew that Adam would be afraid and hide.
Gen 3:8-14 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?” 10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” 12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me — she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.” 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done? “The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” 14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, NIV
The King James, and Living Bible agree that the person walking in the Garden is the Lord God. Below is Young’s literal translation. The above verse uses the term Lord God 5 times.
Gen 3:8 And they hear the sound of Jehovah God walking up and down in the garden at the breeze of the day, and the man and his wife hide themselves from the face of Jehovah God in the midst of the trees of the garden.
(Jacob’s post)
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(Rebuttal)
Image in the new testament can mean profile, likeness, resemblance as it is in the above verse, when speaking about man. In other verses about idols, image may mean statue etc, In Heb 1:3 it says express image. In the Greek the meaning is exact copy, or from the same. Jesus is the only man in the new testament referred to as exact copy of God. If that is the case then he is essentially God. Man as only an image, is something less then that.

(Jacob’s post)
So you cannot see an INVISIBLE GOD, but the INVISIBLE GOD can be man MANIFEST (REVEALED) BY ITS IMAGE. (Jesus Christ) So, you CAN see THE IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD. This is the whole point of Humanity and Jesus to begin with. “Let us make MAN in our IMAGE”
(Rebuttal)
The Lord God walked in the garden he could be heard, and was solid. I’ve already said that! The bible says “Let us create man in our image“, since Jesus is part of the us in that verse. They are speaking together. Jesus is the express image of God in both the spirit world and physical world. God wanted to create man not as the express image of God but as similar. Jacob already admitted else where that everything was created thru Jesus, and by Jesus. Man though isn’t up to par with Jesus therefore he isn’t the express image of God. he is just the image. There is no contradiction. Jesus is everything that God wants us to know about God.
(Jacob’s post)
1 Cor 8:6: “Yet for us there is but ONE GOD, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; AND ONE LORD, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.”
(Rebuttal)
Deut 6:4 (KJV) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: (KJV+) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: (LITV) Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. (YLT) `Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
There is no real proof, specially since these statements are said to Israel. But I believe that there is room in the above phraseology, and some commentators agree that there is a message of plurality. From our vantage point after learning of the doctrine of the trinity, this would make sense. The father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one. In 1st John 5:7 of the King James; states that these three are one. That verse is added by the translators, and is not in the original text. But has the proper sentiment.
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” NIV
Jesus and the father are one, is a greater statement than a believer stating that they are in Jesus, and Jesus being in them, and the father being in us, because we are connected thru Jesus. Jesus being one with the Father means that they are the same.
Eternal life is not only about time. Eternal is about things that are pertaining to God’s nature. When Jesus is giving Eternal life, he is giving “God life” (ZOE) to his sheep. No man can do this. The life, and light was already in Jesus, from the beginning.
John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. NIV
Jacob skipped part of this verse, for some reason? But if you look at the above. It proves that the word is both God, and separate from God. The word is a separate entity, or individual. But he is considered God also. This separate entity is Jesus who was made into flesh. The Holy Spirit, and “God the Father” were not made into flesh. The word was.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. NIV
Jacob said Jesus had God in him, or the word was in him. The above verse says that the word became flesh. The word is not in the flesh, but was pre-existent then made into flesh.
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. KJV
No man is of Godhead, but Jesus! Essentially Jesus nature must be like that of God. Jesus is not just a man, because no man has seen God.
John 8:58-59 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. KJV
Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
KJV
Ex 3:13-14 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. KJV
In the above three verse’s. The people take up rocks to kill Jesus because he said that he was the “I am”. God called himself the “I am” which is both a title, and a existential statement of self existence. All things were created by God. God is self existent. He always existed. God exists outside of time and space. When mass, matter, and space were created then was time also created. Moses was told to worship the “I am”. The “I am” says that he is God, therefore Jesus is saying he is God. Moreover the “I am” (Jesus) is stating that he is the GOD of Moses and his forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Further more each time the forefathers mention their Lord, or God they are speaking of Jesus.
Gen 18:1-3 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. 3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by NIV
Gen 28:12-17 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. 13 There above it stood the Lord, and he said: “I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. 15 I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.” 16 When Jacob awoke from his sleep, he thought, “Surely the Lord is in this place, and I was not aware of it.” 17 He was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven.”
Gen 28:20-22 Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear 21 so that I return safely to my father’s house, then the Lord will be my God NIV
Gen 31:11-13 The angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob.’ I answered, ‘Here I am.’ 12 And he said, ‘Look up and see that all the male goats mating with the flock are streaked, speckled or spotted, for I have seen all that Laban has been doing to you. 13 I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar and where you made a vow to me. Now leave this land at once and go back to your native land.'” NIV
Moses wrote the above account and he identifies the person as the Lord who is above the ladder, then Jacob himself states that the same person claims to be the Lord, and God. Jacob understands that there must be a God. But doesn‘t know who he is. But if this person that he saw takes good care of him, then he will identify the person called Lord as his God. The Lord doesn’t overwhelm Jacob with his appearance to the point where Jacob immediately identifies him as a God. God the father doesn’t appear to man as a person, only the Jesus aspect of the Father appears to man as a human.
Ex 24:1-2 Then he said to Moses, “Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, 2 but Moses alone is to approach the Lord; the others must not come near. And the people may not come up with him.” NIV
The Lord (who is the “I am” which Moses has already met) asks for worship from Moses and others. Angels don’t ask for worship.
Rev 19:11-13 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. KJV
Based on his clothes this must be Jesus, and he is called the word of God. Remember the word is with God, and is God, and he was made flesh.
Rev 5:3-5 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. KJV
No man!!! Only Jesus who is called the Lamb, can open the book. The Lamb of God was someone who was sacrificed for us (lamb) , and was not a man, and was sent to us from God. God provided the sacrifice like he did for Abraham.
Rev 13:8i n the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV
Jesus the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, before there were people, before there was a world, there was the lamb of God, he was with God, and was God, and he was part of Gods plan for our redemption. Therefore everything was created by the Lamb of God. The lamb of God is also the Word of God made flesh.
Rev 21:6-7 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. KJV
Jesus is the Alpha , and the Omega, and he will be our God.
John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. KJV
If we honor the father as God, then we should also honor Jesus , or the son likewise. As God.
John 3:12-13 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. KJV
Jesus came from heaven. He came down, and will ascend. No man can claim that.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. KJV
Rev 2:8-9 These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. NIV
Jesus is everything from the first letter [the Aleph (alpha)], to the last letter of the alphabet. Jesus came from the bosom, heart, or insides of God. Jesus is the only one who could really know him. Because he is of the same nature.
Rev 1:17-18 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. NIV
The alpha, first, and the omega, the last, is also the resurrected one. Jesus!! Jesus is the only person that can be considered as the living one.
Rev 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” NIV
The alpha, and the Omega says that he is God, and the Almighty.
Ex 6:2-4 God also said to Moses, “I am the Lord. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the Lord I did not make myself known to them. NIV
God Almighty of the old testament is also the Alpha, and the Omega. Jesus. Lord.
Ps 24:10 Who is he, this King of glory? The Lord Almighty — he is the King of glory.
NIV
Jesus is considered King of Kings. Could he be the King of Glory?
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. KJV
Slain before the foundation of the world, with the father from the beginning, had glory from the beginning! Who? Jesus!
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. KJV
Jesus will sit on a throne, as king. That’s what Kings do! Throne of Glory. Therefore he is the King of Glory.
Zeph 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel,
NIV
Living God refers to some one who was alive, and died, and is now alive again, and for evermore. Had a physical form. Had material life. Has Eternal God life. He had life in himself. He is the living God. The father is also the living God, and Jesus is the son of the living God. See below. The Lord is the living God. The Godly King. The living God made Heaven, and Earth. We know that the Word of God did that.
Jer 10:10 But the Lord is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King.
When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath. NIV
Acts 14:15-16 are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and everything in them.
NIV
Rev 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: “Holy, holy, holy
is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.” NIV
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; KJV
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. KJV
There are only two persons considered was, and to come. The antichrist (beast) who is of the seven kings. And is also the eighth. Jesus was, is, and will come. “Was” means, alive in the past. “Is” alive at the time of the statement and “will come” again in the future, 2nd coming. This verse points to Jesus who is the only one that is Almighty, Lord God. John was sent by him. We know that it is Jesus that appears to John and tells him to send a message to the seven churches. Jesus is on a Throne. He is King. The almighty is the one who sent John on his mission. God the Father isn’t the one to come.
Rev 4:9-11 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say: 11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created
and have their being.” NIV
Worthy to receive. The Father already had Glory, and doesn’t have to receive it, or prove his worthiness. Jesus proves his worth, and receives.
Rev 11:17-18″We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. 18 The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets NIV
Begun to reign, can only mean Jesus. Jesus is judge.
Rom 14:10-12 For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'” 12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. NIV
Every knee shall bow to Jesus. He judges, and is God.
Phil 2:9-11 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. NIV
Isa 45:21-25 Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past?
Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none but me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. 24 They will say of me, ‘In the Lord alone are righteousness and strength.'” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.
25 But in the Lord all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult. NIV
Josh 5:13-15 Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?” 14 “Neither,” he replied, “but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” Then Joshua fell facedown to the ground in reverence, and asked him, “What message does my Lord have for his servant?” 15 The commander of the Lord’s army replied, “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so. NIV
The captain of the Lords Host receives worship. The word “Lord” is interchangeable between the Father, and the son. They are both God, and Lord.
Luke 20:41-44 Then Jesus said to them, “How is it that they say the Christ is the Son of David? 42 David himself declares in the Book of Psalms: “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand 43 until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ‘ 44 David calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?” NIV
Both the Father, and the Son are the Lord.
Matt 12:2 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” NIV
Jesus is the son of man. He is Lord.
Matt 13:41-43The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. NIV
The Son of Man commands the angels. They are his angels.
Luke 10:22 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is, except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son, and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” NIV
John 5:26-27 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27 NIV
First of all, Jesus was a man of flesh and blood just like the rest of us. The only thing that separated Jesus from us is that he was the first born. This fact alone tells us that Jesus is not God.
The word that was with God in the beginning and that became flesh was not Jesus the man, it is Christ that was, is, and is to come. Christ is the image of God, Christ is the son of God, Christ is the mediator between man and God, Christ is who has tasted death for every man, and Christ is who we are all destined to become.
Jesus the man was simply the first to become Christ. He is now the head of the body of Christ which we will all be a part of in due time. All of us have the seed of Christ in us already, now that seed must be fertilized so Christ can be birthed in us. This is how we are re-born.
The problem is that it is hard for people to distinguish between Jesus the man and Christ because Jesus became Christ and is now called Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus, but he is only the first man to become Christ. Jesus is our pattern and we will become Christ(the image of God)each in our own order.
I know you may not want to hear this, but I do ot believe Jesus the man came about by way of virgin birth. I believe he was born naturally just like the rest of us. I believe that the story of Jesus’ birth along with all the other stories in the bible have deeper meanings. Jacob already wrote a wonderful and powerful essay about this. We will never see these truths as long as we are operating throught the carnal mind. That is why you have a problem with Jacob saying God is invisible and that no man has seen him. You cannot accept this because of the story of Adam and Eve where it says God was walking in the Garden. You believe that God has to be in some sort of solid state because of this. You are not looking at scripture through a spiritual mindset, you are looking at it through a carnal mindset.
Jesus did not die for your sins. Christ is the slain lamb of God. Christ was foreordained from the foundation of the world to be the slain lamb of God. How could Jesus, a man of flesh and blood save you from your sins by being crucified on a wooden cross? The true crucifixion must take place within and is that of the carnal mind. Jesus was a man who became Christ. Christ was birthed in him. That is the real virgin birth. The virgin birth will take place inside all of us. The death of Jesus the man on the cross is symbolic of the crucifixtion of the carnal mind that we will all have to endure at some point. This will not happen until Christ is birthed inside of us.
Now, do not get me wrong, I am not saying that Jesus the man did not actually exist some 2000 years ago. I believe he did. But the stories in the bible even if they all actually happened as they read, contain much deeper spiritual truths that directly pertain to us. So, in a sense, the story of Jesus is the story of us. The story of the prodigal son is the story of us. The allegory of Adam and Eve is the story of our beginning in this physical realm.
I hope I have not offended you in any way. That was not my intent. I too use to struggle with these things, but know that God is drawing us all to His son Christ. Jesus the man is no more. Jesus the man became Christ and that is who he is now. He is not Jesus of Nazareth, he is now the son of God. He is no longer a loley carpenter’s son, He is now Christ, the son of God. Think of it this way, a catepillar starts out as a catepillar, but as it grows and matures, it transforms into a butterfly. Is that butterfly a catepillar too? The answer is no! The catepillar completely morphes into a new creature. What is important here is that the catepillar from its very beginning is destined to become a butterfly. Once the change is made to the butterfly, it is a new creature, its old nature is no more. It no longer slowly crawls along the ground, it is free to fly beautifully through the air. It matters not who the first catepillar was to become a butterfly. The fact is that every catepillar will, at some point, become a butterfly. Sir, we are all like catepillars. Jesus was also a catepillar in a sense but he was the first catepillar to be changed into a butterfly, which was always his and our true identity.
When we think of Jesus, we must no longer think of him as the man Jesus. We cannot think of him as Jesus of Nazareth, or Jesus the carpenter’s son. We can only know him now as Jesus the Christ because he is now Christ! Jesus the man crawled slowly along the ground so to speak as we all do, but he became Christ and is now free to fly above everything and everyone. Jesus the man did not pay for your sins, Christ did. Christ has tasted death for all of us including Jesus the man. The crucifixion of Jesus the man was not the death of Christ. The death of Christ happened before the foundation of the world when the word(Christ) was sent out into the world. That happened by God placing the seed of Christ in each and everyone of us just as He did with Jesus the man. That is how Christ has tasted death for everyone of us. The crucifixion of Jesus was that of a man of flesh and is symbolic of the the crucifixion of the carnal mind which is always symbolized by the flesh. Are you beginning to understand? I hope so.
The last thing I will say is this, Adam was sown a physical body, but Jesus was made a quickening spirit. The quickening spirit is Christ. Jesus started out as a man of flesh just like all of us, he was carnal just like all of us. Now, please understand that we are not our bodies of flesh and blood. We are spirit as our Father in Heaven is spirit. The flesh truly represents our carnal nature that must be crucified. When Jesus said that if our eye causes us to sin, we must pluck it out and throw it into the fire, he was not advocating us mutilating our bodies. He meant that we are to submit our carnal natures to the fire of God so it can be completely consumed. So, getting back to what I was saying. Jesus was a carnal man just like us. The seed of Christ was in him from the beginning just like it is in us. Jesus was chosen to be the first born of many. The many really means all because all will be re-born. Through much trial and tribulation, Jesus was re-born, that is how Jesus became Christ. This will happen to all of us in our due time.
Regarding the comment above it truly is quite clear that Christ did have a WILL of HIS OWN, this is why He had to continually lay His will down for the Fathers, as in “not my will BUT thy will be done”. Sometimes we just read it in a way that the truth does not impact us. Christ did as He told us to do since he was tempted of all things (if you are tempted you must be permitted to accept or deny the temptation which proves further you must a a will to make a decision)Christ resisted the devil, submitted to God or God, His Fathers will; and the advisary had to flee. This is how HE and we become: OVERCOMERS. Truly we overcome the evil within by the blood of Christ, the WORD of our test a mony and not loving our own life (this worldly life and at time breath itself) unto the death, that HE may live (His will His character) not I.
Oh yes our blessed Savior had a will and He willed to do it Fathers way, laying down as a lamb led to the slotter a perfect sacrifice, perfect in his “gene”ology; for the blood of the Father ran through His veins.. His life in exchange for our eternal souls……..He knew that “Father knows best” even when the thought of the torture of His death would cause blood to drip from His brow for the brutal battle of wills transferring within the core of His being, the will to live was trying to overcome the will of the Father to lay down at the hands of evil men yet Good overcame evil that day but submission in obediance to every word the Father said. Praise His Holy Name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good job, Jacob… I agree with what you have written regarding Jesus the Son. But I don’t believe either of these passages indicates that Jesus had a will contrary to His Father’s:
John 5:19. … I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father, which has sent me.
Luke 22:42… Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
I think it implies otherwise, especially when other passages are taken into consideration:
Php 2:13 “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
Was God working in Jesus both to WILL and to DO of His good pleasure? Could Jesus have resisted His Father’s will?
Rom 9:19 “Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? FOR WHO HAS RESISTED HIS WILL?”
Hmmm…
Job 23:13 “But He is unique, and who can make Him change? And whatever His soul desires, that He does.
Job 23:14 “For HE PERFORMS WHAT IS APPOINTED FOR ME…”
Dan 4:35 “All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; HE DOES ACCORDING TO HIS WILL in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. NO ONE CAN RESTRAIN HIS HAND or say to Him, “What have You done?”
Paul and Isaiah both agree that God is working ALL THINGS according to the counsel of HIS OWN WILL:
Eph 1:11 “In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.”
Isa 46:10 “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.”
Gary, I agree with you. And thanks for making that even clearer
Romans 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
I believe we want circumstances to be different at times, but I don’t think we have choice. I think our LONGING for something different is what we could call “Our will” what we want… It doesn’t mean, we can follow after it, unless it is what God wants. This is a touch thing to teach, believe, and learn as I myself have problems believing I am not in control. But, I just wanted to say thank you for your comment and I am in agreement, I don’t believe Jesus could have chose differently at all. Peace
Yes, I think that is true about our wills.
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Dean here is another translation:
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
We all are One with God, God is in us, around us. I am in the Father, the Father in me, etc… And although this is true, and we understand this we would not think making ourselves God is something we should do. For we understand, God is greater than we are. So Jesus too, did not think equating himself with God was something that he could take hold of and claim.
Jacob, I used that scripture showing that Jesus was in the form (shape,nature) of God and thought it not robbery to be EQUAL(equal as pertaining to will) with God(the big Kahuna) although we are Gods.He has set down with the Father on his throne–ruling with the same will(in agreement)not as in the garden where the will differed.I feel we are in this trip to align our will with Gods(as Christ’s was)-remembering we ARE promised life with no death in that place we would be equal with God. I hope I am understanding your reply correctly–blessings
The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world came into the world, and offered himself a sacrifice at a precise hour in time. He did not decide to leave because he saw that men would worship him as God, instead of the Father. Refering to Jesus as the “Big Kahuna”, or “J-Man” causes me concern, Jacob.
David,
First my man, the WORLD (lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life) — The LAMB/TRUTH was SLAIN before the WORLD indeed. The TRUTH was killed the instant, we became EGOMANIACS who wanted to be god ourselves.
2nd, About Jesus not needing to go.
John 16 6But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Lastly,
‘Let not your heart be troubled” 🙂 My man, a tree is known by its fruit, words are just words. If you were concerned that I called Jesus, The J-Man or the Big Kahuna, you would be more concerned with the name JESUS itself, which is a derivitive of ZEUS .. Je-Zeus … his true name was Yeshua, and should have been translated at JOSHUA…
So if you were take concern with literal names, take concern with that. But I think that the “Truth” can never be offended, so if the Truth be with you, as I know Love is, don’t be offended in me or concerned with me brother, unless it is because I am going through hard times… Judge a man by his heart, not be what he types. And remember, people killed Yeshua for saying he was God’s son… Hearing that troubled them. Peace and I sure hope you and yours are doing well. Jacob
Very interesting article. Can’t say that anyone I have ever read put such depth of scripture in any such writing. I will now have to ponder on “Lord”. I appreciate every insight you will share as it provokes great thought.
I agree with you Jacob. I also think that this belief that Jesus is God is what keeps people from being able to say with Paul, …”as he is so am I in this world…” because people are so afraid they will be accused of saying they are God…but how can we be anything else but “as he is” if we are indeed part of him…(he being the head and we being other parts of the same body)…I just don’t understand why people can’t put it all together and fully accept and embrace who we really are…how else are we supposed to touch the world with God if we don’t BE CHRIST/GOD REVEALED IN FLESH to them?!?!
Here is my take on it all.
40 years ago I took a lesson from the Lord’s Prayer. That was to address my prayers to GOD not Jesus. I really never have felt that I worship JESUS. However I do go to GOD in Jesus name because it was Jesus who gave his life to save me But GOD is my father. The 3 in one has never bothered me. I have only understood it as I see in Genesis that the 3 were there in the beginning and all came into being by them. I learned a long time ago not to have statues, pictures etc. of mans idea of Jesus, angels etc. hanging around my house. I did have those things many years ago. But even then I did not worship them. This brings up the question then of who is it that lives in me–is it God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Does it not say Jesus is the resurrection. It is he (Jesus) who rose from the dead. I think Jesus made it pretty clear–He said worship the Father but do we not have the resurrection within that Jesus died for. To me I have always seen it as God is the Father, Jesus being the one that everything goes through and was the created by. The Holy Spirit as being sent by both to guide, teach and direct us. I believe that all has to go through Jesus Christ, He being the mediator between me and God. I worship God, but Jesus is the resurrection power in me. The Holy Spirit does the work in me under Gods direction. I say I believe the 3 in one, but I have never understood it. In my mind they a 3 different ones but with the same purpose, saving me from myself. I may be wrong but I guess I just don’t see the importance of it the way Jacob does. I do agree that it is GOD that we are to worship. Jesus was the means to show us that there was eternal life. The Holy Spirit is our constant companion. OR (I am dumber than a post.) GOD KNOWS.
I agree with you Bonnie.
Jacob, great job….this was one of the things that God used to drive me out of Babylon…The teaching that Jesus was God, Jesus made it very clear He was the son of God, not once did He say He was God. Thank you for writing this, you express your thoughts very well…. be blessed my friend..
Gary
I think you made your case very well. Nice job!
On a side note, I also agree with your assessment of Pat Robertson’s comments on why Haiti experienced the recent earthquake.
Good job, but only those with eyes to see and ears to hear will believe
Here is a verse that those who do not see may use
to counter your argument
(Joh 20:27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
(Joh 20:28) And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
But they may be misreading this verse. Jesus just shocked Thomas proved to the physical sences of Thomas the true nature of Christ
He was so impressed that Thomas could do nothing else but acknowledged that Jesus was his Lord and then acknowledged the wonder and gratefulness to His Father, who was soveign in everything.
6 cocoabeans
Great article..It’s very disheartening to see those that claim to hold the truths of God, to be seen worshiping Jesus,Mary,the Saints,the Bible,a building,ETC..And pushing away those who disagree with what they believe instead of searching for the truth themselves..Hopefully we’ll wake up soon…Keep up the great work!!
There is a pearl in the great commission…A HIDDEN TREASURE…
Jesus said, “go forth, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER… SON… & HOLY SPIRIT
Did the disciples do that…
They baptized in the name of
the LORD … JESUS… CHRIST ONE IN 3???