JACOB'S LADDER

18 thoughts on “A RESPONSE TO A READER”

1. T.J. June 15, 2010 / 5:01 AM

   One final comment from me. Does anyone here find it ironic that the penalty of breaking the law of sin and death was by stoning and that the law of sin and death was itself written upon stones?

   The physical stones were to bring physical death just as the law written upon stone was to bring spiritual death.

   Just something that popped up in my mind as I have been reading Paul’s comments here.

   T.J.

   Reply
2. T.J. June 15, 2010 / 4:47 AM

   Paul,

   I guess I deserve your judgment upon me, after all, I judged you and Victor first and therefore judged myself by doing so.

   Listen, I want you and everyone who may read this to understand that I am not seeking any kind of honor or glory from ANYBODY. What I have spoke, I do believe to be true just as what you and Victor speak you two believe to be true.

   I know where I have failed in the past and where I continue to fail today. I am not perfect, and do not claim to be. I do struggle with multiple things in my life such as anger, lust, greed, hypocrisy, ego, vanity, etc, etc, etc. I deny none of these things. If anyone else wishes to judge me over these things then feel free to do so. None of you can tell me anything that I do not already know about myself.

   Paul, with all do respect my friend, you can throw every scripture that you feel describes me at me all day long, I will not deny any of it. I know what I am but at least I can admit it because I also know that God is in control of it all. Paul, unlike you and Victor, even though I am most assuredly messed-up from the floor up, I do not try to be my own God. Apart from God working in me, I am not capable of changing anything about myself. Paul, even you and Victor admit that it is God who does the work, however, everytime you attempt to correct someone, you speak otherwise, placing the responsibility upon the person in question and leaving God out of it.

   I really don’t know what else to say to you, except that I did mean what I said when I apologized to you and Victor. I am not trying to hide anything about myself anymore. I am sorry you two see me as so far beneath you and can find nothing in your heart but hate and condemnation for me. You called me a spawn of Satan and have declared that he is my father. What am I to say to that, Paul?

   You two have already decided in your own hearts what kind of person I am and what kind of heart I have. You say I need the law that was written upon stones, but yet on your site, you both admit that that law is impossible for us to keep and its purpose is to drive us to Christ, but yet you two constantly use the law as a weapon to beat those around you you hate down.

   In closing, Paul, call me what you want and judge me how you want, but a spawn of Satan would never declare that God is in control of all things and works all things after the counsel of His will for a spawn of Satan wants to be his own God and wishes to glorify himself and go on thinking he is in control and has power over his own destiny. A spawn of Satan would never say that the true law of God is that of Love and that love is only possible by having the mind of Christ alive within for a spawn of Satan only loves himself. A spawn of Satan would never openly admit that he makes any mistakes or has any struggles for a spawn of Satan thinks himself to be already perfect and justified in all his ways. A spawn of Satan would never say something like it is not our responsibility to tell anyone they need to repent of anything because God does that work for us within. No, Paul, a spawn of Satan readily condemns those who do not fully agree with himself and tells them they need to repent because a spawn of Satan does believes himself to be his own God and seeks his own glory and honor. A spawn of Satan seeks to sit on the throne of God declaring himself to be God. Paul, I was once definately a spawn of Satan as you have declared me to still be, but I am no longer. I know God is in control and there is no will besides His own. I know that God molds some of us into vessels of honor and some into vessels of dishonor and that He does it all from the same lump. I know that God is the potter and we are the clay, so why, Paul, do you dare say God’s work is not good? I know that the carnal mind is death and that the law you love so much is the law of sin and death because it is the law for the carnal man because that is the only law he is capable of keeping. I know that the carnal mind is not subject to the true law of God which is love because God subjected it to vanity instead. I know that the carnal mind is not capable of keeping the law of God and is not capable of changing itself, so why do you state otherwise? Why do you constantly tell others that you and Victor have what we “need” and that we need to repent? If we are as bad as you say we are, then how is it possible for us to repent? Are we not dead according to you and Victor? Tell me Paul, how can death know anything about life? Why did not the pharisees and scribes of Jesus’ day recognize him for what he was? Weren’t they dead Paul? And death doesn’t know the things of life, does it, Paul? So, how is death suppose to ressurect itself to life? Will the law of sin and death ever produce anything that has to do with life? If so, then why wasn’t Moses allowed into the promised land? Your site says, and I agree that the law of sin and death is to drive us to Christ. You see Paul, the law of sin and death caters to the carnal man because it makes him believe that he can do the required works to bring himself to salvation, thus being his own God. This is what you believe also because you tell us to repent, to change ourselves, to ressurect ourselves from our deaths unto life. That is only possible by God’s power, Paul!

   Paul, I have openly admitted my failures and struggles for everyone here to see. If you are going to continue to berate me and judge me the way you have and continue to do, then at least help me make sense of what you believe, because I for one am very confused.

   I do not say that in a sarcastic manner, I mean it sincerely. How is it you say on your site that God does all the work to bring us to salvation and that the law of sin and death is to drive us to Christ and is impossible to keep, but in the same breath, you say it is up to us to repent and that we need to keep those laws? You know Paul, I celebrate Christmas and Easter, not in the spirit you will judge me as doing, but I do enjoy those pagan holidays. Your law of sin and death condemns that behavior doesn’t it? I don’t keep you Saturday or Sunday day of rest. I eat pork whenever I feel like it. Me and my fiancee lived together for a good 5 years before we ever got married and had hot sex quite often. According to the law of sin and death, that behavior is condemned isn’t it? My brother is a practicing homosexual and I have not ever told him he was wrong in the site of God and I love him and support him. According to the law of sin and death, that is wrong isn’t it? I have gambled, I have been drunk, I have lied, I have stole, I have been greedy, I have coveted, I have judged, I have cussed, I have done pretty much everything that the law of sin and death condemns. But you know what, Paul, throught it all, God has still revealed to me that He is the one in control of it all. He has revealed to me that it is Him who works in is all to will and do of His good pleasure. God has revealed to me that He is the one who subjected us all to this vanity that we each take part in and that He has subjected us all also to hope. God has revealed to me that it is He who makes light, creates dark, makes peace and created evil. It is all God, Paul, all the time. Are you seriously, with all of your knowledge of the scriptures going to deny any of what I have said here? Tell me, Paul, have I written my own gospel and trashed Jesus Christ as you have accused me of? I know that Christ was slain not two thousand years ago, but from the foundation of the world for the sins of all mankind.

   Paul, I truly mean you or Victor no more harm and feel no hostility towards either of you two. I wish no longer to prove either of you two wrong as I once did. If I could have one thing from you two, I would love for you both to address my beliefs that I have stated in this comment and prove to me that God is not in complete control and does not work EVERYTHING after the counsel of His own will. Prove to me that carna man is capable of repenting on his own. Prove to me that the law of sin and death is suppose to be kept by anyone other than the carnal man. Prove to me that the true law of God is not love. Prove to me that God is not always creating us as we always are. I am not looking to continue this argument, Paul, I am looking for you to bring your beliefs full circle and show me how everything you believe ties and resonates together, because quite honestly, you contradict yourself a lot. You say you and Victor have what I need, then I am giving you not only the benefit of the doubt but also the opportunity to lay it all out, minus the condemnation and judgment, for me and anyone else you wish to see it. If you cannot or are not willing to do this, then please do yourself and myself a favor and leave me alone because I am getting rather dizzy going around and around with you.

   T.J.

   Reply
3. Paul Cohen June 15, 2010 / 3:16 AM

   TJ,

   You write: “I am truly, truly sorry and I hope, with time, you two will be able to forgive me.”

   Did we not forgive you right away last year, when we went through the same thing with you? You wrote to us then:

   “I admit there is much I truly do not understand and I am sincerely sorry for the way I judged you and Victor. I hope you two believe that.”

   We forgave you, but while you think to have advanced so much in your understanding since then, you have become even more prone to taking offense at the truth. That’s because you have been walking in the flesh and in enmity with God according to the carnal mind. You left us, and the Tree of Life, to go feed from the Tree of Knowledge, puffing yourself up and falling flat on your face the second your ego is touched.

   The reason we carry no grudges and are prepared to forgive you at any time is because we have never been offended or striving with you in the flesh. We, by the grace of God, have been walking in the Spirit of Christ towards you, in Whom there is no offense. You say the hostility was mostly on your part, as if we had any, but we have had none. You blame us because you still seek to excuse yourself from hearing the truth we have told you, and submitting yourself to it.

   While we are willing to forgive you, TJ, you are not safe or out of the woods by a long shot in your current stance. You are in an even worse place than before. When you first walked away last year, you knew you were wrong. But instead of repenting, you sought to keep your life, consoling yourself with falsehood. Now you wax righteous with us, trying to show us your love, which is as much a work of the flesh as your indignation. It’s just the other side of the coin. You are trying to be a good person, to prove yourself worthy, which none are.

   Despite what you say, you have no need or use for the Lord and Savior of all men. You despise and trash Him.

   What we have from you in this apology is superficial, self-serving, self-glorifying, with the equivalent effect of flicking the scab off a melanoma. The cancer is still there, eating away at you.

   We don’t honor you in your sickness, as you would like, saying all is well with you and that we are brethren on the same path. You are on a very different path from us, one you only strengthen yourself on by seeking to confirm your righteousness through false love.

   Your love is a more heinous insult to God than even your indignation, because now you try to cover over your wickedness with a presumed goodness. Being evil, you played the part of the devil, which you somewhat admit to. But instead of seeking a complete and effectual repentance by renouncing the hidden things of darkness and the craftiness of the evil one, you now dress the devil in nicer clothes and tell us he is a contrite and loving Christian. We tell you he is nothing of the sort. He is antiChrist.

   Your repentance is like starting to back the car out of the garage, and then pulling right back in and shutting the door, declaring you have arrived in safe haven. Meanwhile, the house you live in has been condemned by God, to be bulldozed and burned.

   Your eye isn’t single, TJ, and therefore the Lord has given you over to strong delusion. You were primed for the egocentric and deadly error “Jacob Israel” peddles on this site. In your own words, that error is:

   “The truth is, we are all ONE IN SPIRIT, being made of the same spirit as God and we are all being made ONE IN MIND which is the mind of His son, Christ.”

   That’s not what the real Lord and Savior says. The truth is:

   “Why do you not understand what I say? Because you are unable to hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you desire to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar, and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me” (John 8:43-45 EMTV).

   Which also refutes this statement of yours:

   “[God] is the Father of us all regardless of where we are at in our spiritual walk with Him.”

   And this:

   “My belief is that we are all truly on the same journey, just at different points in that journey.”

   The Lord tells us to enter into life by the strait gate taking one on the narrow way, because the wide gate and broad way that the multitudes take leads to destruction. But you tell everyone, “Forget what He says, you are already on the right path.” Whom should people believe, TJ, or Jesus Christ?

   Should those in error not be told? Does God, in His mercy and longsuffering, not send His servants to tell the people their sins, so they might repent and be delivered from destruction? Not according to the false gospel of TJ:

   “I don’t believe it is right for any of us to tell someone else they need to repent of anything.”

   That’s what all the rebels say, who love to do their own thing and won’t have anyone tell them what to do. The audacity of the man of sin takes one’s breath away. Here you are, TJ, coming in the Name of Christ, and denying Him the right to speak to men as He always has, through His servants and Body, the saints. Did you know that the ancients prophesied about you, and what the Lord would do about you and your cohorts?

   “Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men, saying, ‘Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly among them about all their ungodly deeds which they have committed impiously, and about all the harsh words which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.’ These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaks puffed up words, flattering people to gain advantage” (Jude 1:14-16 EMTV).

   And there you are, pontificating and flattering the people here who listen to your nonsense, not speaking a word against the antiChrist doctrine I just cited, praising you instead, and giving you the reward you have sought. From Jesus Christ you have nothing because you have despised and trashed Him in all of your ways.

   No, God does not “drag us to Christ.” He draws us to Himself, which is much different. Here is who He drags:

   “And he said to him, Friend, how did you come in here without having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few chosen” (Matthew 22:12-14 MKJV).

   So much for your wide gate and broad road.

   Things were much better for you, TJ, when we spoke last year, and you were more honest about your position:

   “I cannot say that Christ is living in me, because if He were, I would not be struggling with these things as I am…. I really don’t believe that Christ is living in me yet, and I know that I am not worthy of Him at all. I know that I must still be very carnal because when I think about what it means to truly keep the Law, I am afraid of the commitment because I know I would fail miserably. Everytime I sincerely try to be a better person and to do my best to love others more and to treat others with compassion and patience, I fail and it makes me feel like crap. I look at how I judged you two and I feel like crap. I look how I tend to treat others and I feel like crap. I struggle with so much stuff that I honestly don’t think I could ever live my life in a way that will please God. I guess that is why I was quick to judge you two. It made me feel a little better about myself. However, I am sorry and I know I was way off base.”

   But without faith, you are “like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind:”

   “For let not that man suppose that he shall receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways” (James 1:7-8 EMTV).

   We have what you need, and you won’t be getting it without us. That’s the way the Lord has arranged things. As He said to the Jews:

   “Now see, your house is waste, and I say to you, You will not see Me again till you say, A blessing on him who comes in the Name of the Lord” (Luke 13:35 BBE).

   Until then, you are “ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was” (2 Timothy 3:7-9 KJV).

   Paul Cohen

   Reply
   • jacobisrael71 June 16, 2010 / 7:46 AM

     Paul,

     If you put as much time encouraging, inspiring and leading others to salvation as you do leading them to the shame, and torment of hell, you would be someone I would like to meet. I have learned very early in my life, those that condemn others, are the most broken and hurt inside. If this were not true, Paul I think I would call and your pal Victor out to the playground, say two thirty, you bring you weapon of choice (the law, ignorance, hate, pride, arrogance, condemnation, and I’ll bring two large ice cream sunday’s with hot fudge and cherries on top) That always works for my kids when they forget who their Father and that instead of getting the whupping they believe they deserve, they get loved on instead. Paul, I would love you, till it hurts! Till you couldn’t take it anymore, I’d give you a big ole bear hug, and give you a noogie or two, just because you are about the biggest silly goose I have ever come across! You be nice to my friends on here now, and you’ll see you’re life will begin to turn around for the better. You keep on hating and attacking, and yoking yourself with these unbelieving chooches you’re in bed with, all you’ll have is your self loathing and hate to keep you warm at night. 2:30 you choose the playground, I’ll bring the BASKIN ROBBINS!

     Reply
4. T.J. June 11, 2010 / 11:54 PM

   Hello everyone. I wrote Paul and Victor an e-mail this morning that I wanted to share with everyone here. It is kind of long, so I apologize but I truly feel that it should be shared with all involved.

   In my e-mail, I admitted how I wrongly judged and mis-represented the two of them. I didn’t see it at the time, but I do see it now. I was letting my ego and carnal nature get in the way of the truth and for that, I sincerely apologize to everyone here. The way you all responded to Paul and Victor with love and kindness was awesome and has definately inspired the same in me. You all are truly great people and have the light of Christ shining brightly within and I have learned much from all of you so I thank and praise God for each and everyone of you.

   Here is the e-mail.

   Paul and Victor,

   I just wanted to say I am sorry for any hostility I showed you two. I have been on a spiritual journey for some time now and have learned a lot about myself along the way.

   When I first came to your site, I was happy because there are very few people who believe that God is going to have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. As I continued reading more from your site, I began to develop a negative picture of you two. At the time, in my immaturity, I believed certain things that I really thought were true, so what you two were saying offended me in my false beliefs. At the time I believed in the physical resurrection and had no revelation of the true spiritual resurrection that takes place within. This coupled with what I read of you two going out of your way to correct others caused me to see you both in a very negative light. Admittedly, I know I wrongly judged you both and because of that, I also judged myself.

   Since I first came to your site, I can honestly say that God has corrected many of my false beliefs and has revealed a lot of truth within me. I can now look back and see how I was wrong in many ways and how I should not have been so quick to judge the two of you in the manner I did. When I anonymously e-mailed you two about Jacob’s site, a part of me did it because I truly wanted to share what I believe to be true with the two of you. There was much hostility between us before, mostly on my part, and I wanted to try to mend that. But if I am going to be completely honest, a part of me was also wanting you two proved wrong. I didn’t see it at the time, but I clearly see it now. Paul, the way I responded to your comments on Jacob’s ladder yesterday was a clear indication to me where my heart really was. At the time I was typing those comments, my ego and pride were swelling. All I wanted to do was take your words and shove them right back in your face for all to see. It wasn’t till a little later that I realized how wrong I was for acting that way. I truly apologize for how I have judged, represented, and treated both you and Victor.

   I believe this whole experience had a great purpose for everyone involved. For myself, I have learned that proving someone wrong because of the way they believe is not important and never produces good fruit. Since I first found fault with you and Victor, I have desired in my heart to prove how wrong the two of you are and have obviously went out of my way to do so. I realize how wrong I was for doing this and that I had much to learn from all of this. What I have also learned is that regardless of the knowledge one has of the scriptures, what truly matters is love. I know I have not judged you two and responded to you two in love, and for that, I sincerely apologize. I said that you and Victor have a lot of hate in your hearts, but the same could be said of me. I fully admit that I am not as well versed or knowledgeable of the scriptures as you two are and I may never be, but I do know that God is love and Christ as the express image and likeness of God is also love. I also know that Christ does not come to condemn, but to save. My actions and responses condemned the two of you and what I was doing and thinking was not of God and not of Christ.

   Paul and Victor, I do love you both regardless of how and where we may differ in our beliefs. Before, all I could focus on was the differences in our beliefs and I allowed those differences to create a division between us. I now realize how foolish I was for doing this. At the end of the day, it matters not whether we completely see eye to eye on things or not. What matters is how we treat one another and how we judge one another. This whole experience for me, has shown me that I no longer care anything about proving someone wrong or judging someone for their beliefs because they happen to believe contrary to myself. All I truly care about, now, is loving everyone regardless of who they are or what they believe. I realize that how I treated you two was no better than how mainstream religion treats those they feel God is going to burn for all of eternity. Once again, I am truly, truly sorry and I hope, with time, you two will be able to forgive me.

   Like I said before, I admit that I do not know all there is to know about the scriptures, but I know God to be a loving Father and He is the Father of us all regardless of where we are at in our spiritual walk with Him. God is the one who subjected us all to vanity/carnality and He is the one who also subjected us all to hope. My belief is that we are all truly on the same journey, just at different points in that journey. What ever truth any of has is a gift from God and we have no right to boast or be proud as I have in the past. God is the savior of all men and He is the one who repents for us, that is, He is the one who changes our mind from that of carnal/death to that of life/Christ. In our carnal state, which we all begin in, we can do nothing of ourselves to come to God or choose Christ. God is the one who drags us to Christ and He is dragging us all, all the time. I don’t believe it is right for any of us to tell someone else they need to repent of anything. To me, that is us trying to be God, for God is the savior of all men and He alone changes us from within and drags us to Christ. We are all exactly where we are suppose to be all the time because God is in control of all things and is working all things after the counsel of His own will all the time. That means, whatever we are and any given moment in time is exactly how God wants us. God is still creating us, He is not finished with us, so any flaws and imperfections we currently have, we are suppose to have, because there is a grand purpose in it all. We cannot look at good and evil and say that God only does good and has no hand in evil when Isaiah clearly states otherwise. Even the most heinous of crimes are brought about by God and His will, but it is never without purpose and it is always for the good of those involved. God created the carnality and vanity He subjected us to. That is why I don’t like people telling others to repent. That is the same as saying that what God is doing with them is not working or is not good enough so they must put in effort of their own which is impossible to begin with. That is why God said the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God nor can it be. The law of God is not the mosaic law. The mosaic law is carnal and is the law of sin and death. Sure, it serves a grand purpose and that is to drive us to Christ. But the law of God is Love and Love is not written upon tablets of stone, it is written upon our hearts. The bottom line is that we are all exactly where we are suppose to be because God is in complete control and is working EVERYTHING after the counsel of His own will. This is truly what I wanted you two to understand. But even by saying that, I see how I was trying to do God’s work for Him myself.

   Paul and Victor, regardless of how you two truly feel about me after all of this, we are brothers. I know how I wrongly judged you two and how I misrepresented you two. However, I also know that God was in control of it all and that it all had great purpose. I have shared the purpose it served with me and I know that it has served a great purpose for all involved. I pray everyday that God will fill my entire heart, mind, and spirit with the full knowledge of His truth, light, and love no matter the cost and that He will purge and consume more and more of my carnal mind and carnal nature everyday no matter the cost. After this experience, I now also pray that God will help me to love everyone I come into contact with as I am loved by God and as I love myself. I desire to cause no more harm to anyone. I simply want to love regardless of the beliefs, or anything that has to do with the exterior. The truth is, we are all ONE IN SPIRIT, being made of the same spirit as God and we are all being made ONE IN MIND which is the mind of His son, Christ. Of course, that work is not finished yet, but one day it will be and there will be no more divisions between any of us because truly, we are only divided in THOUGHT/MIND anyway.

   I hope what I have written you both today is received in peace. I promise to never judge nor mis-represent either of you again and am truly sorry for the way I have. I truly wish you both the best in all that you two do and I hope that you two have been inspired as I have to do everything in Love. I love you both and know God will richly bless you both.

   T.J.

   Reply
5. Jonna Stickel June 11, 2010 / 6:42 AM

   Victor, Paul…no matter what words you may use to assault us with, you are still loved. It is useless for you to continue in this manner, for all you will receive in turn is kindness and love. I accept what you say, and with love, wish you peace. Namaste

   Reply
6. Paul Cohen June 11, 2010 / 1:29 AM

   David, what good company is Jacob in, the one that includes rapist popes (if not literally raping children, then metaphorically the people), lying scoundrels (Benny Hinn), murderers (John Calvin), and false teachers of all kinds, whose one commonality is despising the cross of Christ, as you do, false accuser?

   So you “feel lead to comment,” Ann? Led by whom? You have never eaten from the Tree of Life or entered Paradise. You have fallen for the same old trick, eating from the Tree of Knowledge (“The Secret”) and thinking you have life, fooled once again because your heart is not right with God. Ann Johnson, you are dead and you follow the dead while aspiring to lead, or be venerated by, them.

   Eric, the problem for the Israelites wasn’t that they made the required sacrifices, but that they omitted the weightier matters of the Law:

   “Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do good; seek judgment, reprove the oppressor. Judge the orphan, plead for the widow” (Isaiah 1:16-17 MKJV).

   Jesus said the same thing:

   “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and you have left undone the weightier matters of the Law, judgment, mercy, and faith. You ought to have done these and not to leave the other undone” (Matthew 23:23 MKJV).

   Now, after all your words, we still have no idea what Scriptures we teach from that you don’t agree with. What circle are we presenting as a square, or square as a triangle? Can you say? Surely with your great spiritual attainment and insight it must be child’s play for you to show us. Please enlighten us.

   You write in your pretentious, wise-in-your-own-eyes prattle: “To know you are born from your Father does not mean you know His ways. You must be adopted as a Son into His House to begin to learn His ways.” Since when is a child that is born to parents still in need of being adopted by them? Plainly, you have never known the Father. You certainly have nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ, Whom you could never confess publicly that He (Jesus Christ) is Lord.

   Rk Souliske, you have perfectly described Jacob:

   “People always attack that which they fear… they dont want to be challenged in their thinking and beliefs … but when they are some try to convince themselves against their own doubts and fears by attacking others who are secure in theirs instead of reaching out in unity they rather divide..cause they have fallen under the illusion and lie of ‘If I can destroy that which others believe I bulster my own position regardless if its truth or not..'”

   TJ, you don’t love us. How can you love us when you condemn us with lies? We have never said “that certain individuals with illnesses were being punished by God by that illness for the way they believe.” Prove that we have said this, because then we will prove that you misquote us and twist our words, liar.

   We never said this: “According to Victor and Paul, it is our responsibility to choose God and to become perfect.” Prove it, because then we will prove that you misquote us and twist our words, liar.

   We have never done this: “I cannot tell you how many times I have read letters from both Paul and Victor ripping people apart for their beliefs or really, for not believing EXACTLY the same way they do.” Again, prove it, because then we will prove that you misquote us and twist our words, liar.

   Are we not finding fault with you firstly, and not with your beliefs, liar? The liar is the cause of error and false doctrine, not the other way around.

   And what is the problem with calling a liar a liar? Our Lord and Trailblazer did it, so why do you condemn us for following in His footsteps? Get behind us, liar, spawn of Satan!

   Yes, Satan your god inspired you to send us this site. But our Father, God Almighty and the Lord Jesus Christ, caused Satan to move you in order that many might be judged, particularly your present host.

   It is ironic that you lecture us on the sovereignty of God, which we preach, while simultaneously recommending this site as 100% inspired by God, which preaches the sovereignty of “Jacob Israel.” “You can create your own reality, be your own God, just like me,” and so forth, he says. This is the garbage you are buying into, while rejecting the Sovereign Lord Jesus Christ Whom we preach. So it is with sinners who cannot help but contradict themselves.

   The great lie you tell from your father is that we are all currently of one spirit. How well this lie serves the gates of hell, nullifying any application of the judgment of God regarding what is of Christ and what is not!

   “But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, so your thoughts should be corrupted from the simplicity due to Christ. For if, indeed, the one coming proclaims another Jesus, whom we have not proclaimed, or if you receive another spirit, which you did not receive, or another gospel, which you never accepted, you might well endure these”
   (2 Corinthians 11:3-4 MKJV).

   But Jesus also said the gates of hell will not prevail against His chosen.

   You say: “You two claim to be spokespersons for God but if God is love, and He is, then the things you two speak to others is not love and not of God.”

   What about these two spokespersons? I suppose in the Gospel According to TJ, they are not of God either, since they are so unloving as to breathe fire on their enemies, the enemies of truth:

   “And if any man would do them damage, fire comes out of their mouth and puts an end to those who are working against them: and if any man has a desire to do them damage, in this way will he be put to death” (Revelation 11:5 BBE).

   Jonna, you have bought into the New Age and false gospel love of the whore, big time. Your heart is not right with God. Repent.

   David, what came forth from TJ was vile in God’s sight, not precious. You need to buy gold tried in the fire so you might have substance, white garments to cover the shame of your nakedness, and eyesalve for your blindness.

   Reply
   • T.J. June 11, 2010 / 2:57 AM

     “More recently we contacted Ray this year (Feb. 2009), when we learned that he had Stage IV prostate cancer, to offer our help. He replied briefly describing his means of treatment, and we were glad he was taking a natural approach to healing. We told him he needed to consider the underlying cause of the illness, his bitterness and rejection of the Lord. We did not hear back.”

     “At first, Victor was a little reluctant in talking to me, asking why I was calling them. His reaction was understandable, since I too had not been in touch with him. I asked him why Pascal had passed away, if it was because he had received an evil spirit and was a fulfillment of what the Lord had said when He said that things would not go well if Pascal did not repent.”

     These are but two samples of you and Victor claiming that a physical illness was brought on by God for their lack of repentance. No twisting of words here, Paul, just simple cutting and pasting with the mouse.

     As far as proving you two rip people apart for their beliefs, the section on your website titled “false teachers exposed” speakes abundantly for itself, it encourage anyone here in doubt to take the time and read through it all for themselves.

     Now, as far as you two not placing the responsibility upon man for their own salvation, that my friend is a lie. Sure, your teachings on your site may state otherwise, but if you really believed it, you wouldn’t be so quick to tell people to repent. You would know and realize that only God can perform that work within an individual. I really think you and Victor like to throw the “repent” word out there at people because it somehow empowers you both and makes you feel superior over others. Like it or not, none of us are any better than anyone else regardless of our beliefs.

     So Paul, you can call me a liar until you are blue in the face, it does not matter to me at all. I have not lied about anything I have said here. You and Victor claim to represent God but the hostility and hate behind your words show you two to be representing yourselves. Like it or not, God is love and how you two speak to others is not love. Christ draws all men to himself, yet you and Victor have what, drawn a handful of easy victims, to yourselves over how many years? Tell me, Paul, if you and Victor represent God so well, then why do you two fail so much in “correcting” the rest of us who don’t buy into your brand of DEATH?

     I said it once and I will say it again, you two will never draw anyone to Christ as long as there is hate for the rest of us in your hearts. Remember, Jesus didn’t come to condemn, He came to save. Your and Victors words are not words of salvation, they are words of condemnation. You two don’t accept anyone until they have fully surrended themselves to you and your carnal ideas about God.

     Paul, even through all of this stuff, I do love you and Victor. The love may not be a personal one, but it is love none the less. If I did not love you both, I would not have shared this site with you two. Truth be told, I knew you two would react exactly as you both have. You two spew your hate and condemnation for everyone else because you are both scared. You don’t want to lose what you have built up for yourselves. You don’t want to have to let go of your pride and arrogance because that is the foundation upon which you have built yourselves up. I don’t say these things to make you angry or any angrier than you already are at the moment. I say them because it is the truth. I know how hard it is to let go of the things you have always beleived to be true. It is hard because it is the second death. Regardless of how you both feel right now, I know a seed has been planted and that was my whole motivation for doing what I did.

     So Paul and Victo, you two can say what you want about me. You both can condemn me, call me a fool, call me a liar, and idolator, whatever. I can take it. I know that I am not perfect but I also know that none of us currently are. We are being perfected. That is our whole purpose for being here in this physical realm in the first place. The seed has been planted and with time, it will begin to take root and will begin to grow. God’s word will not return unto Him void.

     T.J.

     Reply
   • Eric Parra June 11, 2010 / 3:11 PM

     Hi Paul,

     I feel like I did with my two brothers when we had a disagreement that ended in a physical spat. We would get over the disagreement and usually come to an understanding often seeing that there was no reason to have a spat in the first place. I hope that will be the case here. I will place your response to my post in bold letters followed by my response to yours:

     Now, after all your words, we still have no idea what Scriptures we teach from that you don’t agree with. What circle are we presenting as a square, or square as a triangle? Can you say? Surely with your great spiritual attainment and insight it must be child’s play for you to show us. Please enlighten us.

     If I have come across as a “mightier than thou” know-it-all, please accept my complete apology. That was not my intent..I know nothing by my own effort or my own mind. Simply put, I am nothing on my own. Anything you have perceived has been given by grace in measure by The Spirit and it is by the Spirit that anything is revealed to me. Praise the Lord! This does not make me special in any way….this is available to all who come to our Lord, Christ Jesus, and put off their own thoughts enough to hear His.

     I have no contention with you on anything scriptual. People can argue over words day and night but I will leave that to the academics and lawyers whose only concern is to prove their ideas through the letter of documents, the definition of “is”, and NOT discerning what is being said(i.e. what does it mean)…whether it is scripture or someone’s post on a blog.

     *BROTHERLY SPAT SECTION*
     The circle and the square: I cannot look at anything as being good or evil unless it has been discerned by the Spirit. Only our Father is Good, and only The Lord, Jesus Christ, can reveal His will in a situation. Take any two shapes:one is a picture of righteousness of The Lord and the other is self-righteousness. I do not say this to hurt you, Victor, or Sara or any in your fellowship, but if you want to bring others in a closer relationship with OUR Father, the methods employed are not the right shape. Dear brother, if this isn’t what you want, then our doctrines are different. His will be done. God is God after all..

     Neither Jacob, David, Ann, TJ, rksouliske, or Jonna has commented in response to a post telling anyone “I AM THE ONLY ONE GETTING THIS RIGHT” or “BOY DO YOU HAVE THIS ALL WRONG…YOU FOOL! LOL” Your circle though proclaims these things in a spirit of antagonism instead of a spirit of Love. A meal is being served at this blog, but instead of just not eating what you did not like, you threw it in the face of those sharing it with you. I pray that we all listen and discern what is to be eaten by the Spirit and what is to be left alone. And if nothing of that meal is agreeable, don’t sit at that table! I like food, but that doesn’t mean I go to a restaurant where I dislike the food and berate the cook for what he prepares.
     *END BROTHERLY SPAT*

     No one is forcing anyone to sit at this table. Our Father does not force anyone else either. That is not His way….if it was, He would have forced us ALL a long time ago to bow and give Him his rightful place in ALL things. He does not want us as slaves to serve Him in bondage…He wants a WILLING servant who gives up their own life for His! I enlighten no one; He who is The Light enlightens all.

     You write in your pretentious, wise-in-your-own-eyes prattle: “To know you are born from your Father does not mean you know His ways. You must be adopted as a Son into His House to begin to learn His ways.” Since when is a child that is born to parents still in need of being adopted by them? Plainly, you have never known the Father. You certainly have nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ, Whom you could never confess publicly that He (Jesus Christ) is Lord.

     Once again, I apologize…

     Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

     Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the ADOPTION, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

     Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the ADOPTION, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

     Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the ADOPTION of sons.

     Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the ADOPTION of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

     Adoption means “son placing” — to be placed as a son, which is the great hope of the Christian who is going on to know the Lord. In today’s society, we adopt someone else’s child, but in the Israelite society of that time, they adopted their own child. Why would they want to adopt their own child?

     The Jewish “Bar Mitzvah” explains this… When a boy of 12 takes this religious service, from that time on, he leaves the care of his mother and is placed with his father who will teach him his ways. When the Lord adopts us, He removes us from “Mother”(a symbol of a Church) and weans us from the breast, from drinking milk and we come to the place where our Father will teach us the things of Himself. We are “placed as a son.”

     I pray that brought some clarity. I feel as if I have been stoned, but that’s ok, I have had spats with my natural brothers over things we both believed were right. I still love them even if the bruises and wounds are still visible to both of us.

     Without my Father, I cannot say “my Father”. In fact for a very long time, I never uttered those words in regards to The Lord my God, but then this all became VERY PERSONAL in His time. It only became personal when our Lord, Jesus Christ, revealed Himself to me…and it was then that I began to know OUR Father in measure. Dear brother, He teaches and corrects His sons…OUR perfect Father does it His way!

     Much Love,
     Eric

     Reply
7. Paul Cohen June 11, 2010 / 1:08 AM

   Jacob, Paul Cohen here. You write to Sara:

   “You see, you, like Victor, want to prove you are right and I am wrong.”

   The fact is, you are wrong, and we have plainly proven you are to any who can hear the Voice of God, receiving the evidence of the Scriptures and the Word of God made flesh.

   Victor, in his letter, gave you sound reason according to the Word of God, but you couldn’t hear or answer a word he said, or any of his questions. All you have been able to do in any of your replies to us is mock and posture like you know something, throwing out opinion and assessments without basis or fact.

   You accuse us of selfish bias, but you have shown yourself to be the one who is selfish and wants to prove he is right, regardless of the truth. That’s the basis of your whole “The Secret – Christian Style” philosophy. You are in control of what happens, and to hell with Reality.

   Are you not trying to prove we are wrong, with your tedious and tangential rebuttals? Why the hypocrisy? But you can’t help yourself from trying, because you love yourself and your fraudulent spiritual theory much more than you love the Truth. You have no use at all for the Truth, because it stands against your image and your naked ambition to be a really big SomeOne, teaching all others as “A Voice in the Dead Woods.” The Truth threatens everything you have and want, so you fight for your life. But what chance do you stand opposing the Lord Jesus Christ?

   This is why you make many false accusations against what we have said, supporting your accusations with lying, twisted interpretations of our words and the Scriptures. You are threatened, and more than that, you are exposed as a fraud. You are in damage control mode. The blind sycophants on your site don’t see it, but it’s there, and all of you sense and know it. That’s why you are in a hubbub, all of you, saying a lot while saying nothing that is apropos to the content of what we speak.

   We could go line by line exposing your error, and will if necessary, but what we provide from the Lord is more than the requisite two or three witnesses to confirm the matter. He will leave none with excuse here, or anywhere else, when all is said and done. Those for the truth will be convinced, while those for lies will be judged:

   “But let God be true, and every man a liar; as it is written, ‘That You might be justified in Your sayings, and will overcome when You are judged'” (Romans 3:4 MKJV).

   I can address much of the confusion brought on by the smokescreen of your replies, by starting at the beginning. In this latest response, you have ignored or forgotten how the discussion began. I had received an invitation for automatic updates to your blog (T.J. Whitworth now admits he sent the invite anonymously, writing to us under a false name). When I checked out the blog (never having heard of it), I left this short comment at WAKE UP, CHRIST!:

   “Jacob, you write: ‘We are not to be unequally yolked with unbelievers. That does not mean we shouldn’t marry people that don’t know Christ, as some have said.’

   What could possibly be more of an unequal yoke than marrying an unbeliever, where the ‘two become one flesh’? You are very wrong; please read my testimony and wake up indeed!

   http://thepathoftruth.com/testimonies/paul.htm” [END]

   In your reply you continued to justify your perversion of the Word of God, which plainly says:

   “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness? And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever?” (2 Corinthians 6:14-15 MKJV)

   You wrote: “Now, a Yolk is something that shackles people, drags them down and holds them back, CONTROLS THEM.”

   But the Scriptures don’t say a yoke (not “yolk”) is necessarily evil, as you claim, but that a believer goes into evil if he becomes UNEQUALLY yoked. There is an equal yoke between believers that is good and desirable, just as with a team of oxen. Those in Christ are yoked together with Him in the work of God, finding unity, peace, and rest in His yoke:

   “Take My yoke on you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you shall find rest to your souls. For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light” (Matthew 11:29-30 MKJV).

   You reject the yoke of the Lord because you are dead set on being a free agent who does his own thing. You are here to use God for your own glory, not to lay down your life in love and obedience. The very notion of “Lord” is anathema to you (unless you get to be the Lord).

   And what does it tell us about you that you constantly speak contrary to the Scriptures and testimony of the Lord?

   “To the Law and to the Testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because no light is in them” (Isaiah 8:20 MKJV).

   Now, you say that we have no love and are not nice because we tell you the truth. Since when is telling the truth not love? But you have no love of the truth, so you accuse us to justify your lies and wickedness. You refuse the truth that is for your good, and therefore justify your rejection of those who tell you the truth by saying we “aren’t loving, are ignorant and not as advanced” as you, and so on. All baloney with no substance.

   You wrote in a reply to me (which I had not answered yet):

   “I am sorry if you had a bad marriage (I am assuming you did) but trust me when I say, your failed marriage is a symbol, as was mine. And had nothing at all to do with your ex wife’s unbelief.”

   The problem with your assumptions is that you never bother to check if they are true, and they are almost always not. I didn’t have a “failed” marriage, Jacob, I had an illegitimate one. There’s a profound difference. The fault of illegitimacy was not my partner’s unbelief, but my own, because I was in disobedience, in fornication, and compounded my sin by taking something (her, in marriage) that was not mine to take. In the flesh, we were perfectly happy to stay together, but my sin was killing me inside, without anyone trying to convict me. I was entirely free of religion and all of men’s fear and control inputs, having begun my walk of faith outside of those. I didn’t know what the problem was.

   But what are facts to you? You speak without knowledge or investigation of a matter. What do the Scriptures say about that?

   “Whoever gives an answer before he listens is stupid and shameful” (Proverbs 18:13 GW).

   Can’t have shame, though, can you? You are too proud to confess your pride and admit your error. You are right no matter what!

   What you don’t like to hear about is personal accountability and the consequences of sin, or that God actually has commandments one must obey or else discover that something bad will happen. You continue:

   “You and I believe very differently, so one of us is an unbeliever. Your words could inspire fear and control ‘You must do this and that or else’… God does not give us the spirit (thoughts) of fear, but peace, love, and a sound mind.”

   The words you find fearful are not mine, but God’s: “Do not be unequally yoked together with an unbeliever….” Is God trying to give us a “spirit (thoughts) of fear,” or is He telling us what is right and good, which carries a warning of evil ramifications should we go contrary to His Laws and Ways?

   You are accusing God, the Lord Jesus Christ Who magnifies the Law of God, of immorally trying to inspire fear in order to control us! This is not surprising, because rebels always act this way. Your protest against “fear and control” is exactly what Korah and his fellows said to Moses and Aaron:

   “Is it a small thing that you have brought us up out of a land that flows with milk and honey, to kill us in the wilderness, but must you also seize dominion over us?” (Numbers 16:13 MKJV)

   Like your fathers, you love the land of Egypt, the flesh, where you are a bond slave to sin, free to imagine whatever you wish according to your own mind. You call that “the land of milk and honey,” knowing nothing of the yoke of the Lord and His promised land, the one that truly flows with milk and honey.

   We fear (reverence) God because we live in His holy land, by His will and grace, where we have found His every Word to be true. We have learned the hard way that we hurt ourselves if we don’t respect Him and what He tells us, which He tells us for our good, and not evil, as you and Korah complain. In our fear of God, we have peace, love, and a sound mind, all the things you lack because you reject His Word, insisting on doing your own pleasure and playing the hero to fools who love destruction.

   Besides having a false peace and love, you also have a false sound mind. You are insane, like someone on strong drugs who thinks he is perfectly fine and makes total sense, even being proud of it and showing off, while his reasoning isn’t sound at all. You conclude:

   “This is why we are charged to COME OUT OF THIS RELIGIOUS SYSTEM, do not take part of the lies of this world, don’t be YOLKED (dragged down) by people’s ignorance- and to be honest with you Paul, it is ignorance to believe you shouldn’t literally marry someone who doesn’t believe what you believe….”

   God says: “Come out of her, My people, that you may not be partakers of her sins, and that you may not receive of her plagues” (Revelation 18:4 MKJV).

   You say “coming out” is good, but threatening with plagues is evil. God shouldn’t say that, according to you, because He is inspiring “fear and control.” You say a believer can marry anyone, including one in the religious system, as long as the believer has come out of the system. Nothing bad will happen to him. That’s like saying one can have sex with anyone, as long as it isn’t in a whorehouse. Fornication, however, is fornication, no matter where it takes place, and sin always results in loss and death, not life like you and Satan preach:

   “There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end of it is the ways of death” (Proverbs 16:25 MKJV).

   An unbeliever is an unbeliever, whether one has come out of the religious system or not. Believers are not to join themselves to unbelievers, period, just as one must refrain from adultery and fornication in any time or place. Just because you have possibly come out of the religious system doesn’t mean you are a believer who has come out in obedience to God. Many come out according to their desire for complete independence from man and God, serving themselves according to the corrupt “religious system” within. That is you.

   And what good is it to be out of the system, yet full of lies and false assumptions and accusations of others? You are one lawless fellow, “Jacob Israel,” attracting a lawless bunch of followers. You teach them what they want to hear, that they are as God, doing away with Him and His pesky Laws and Ways, so that they can now do their own thing without fear:

   “These are sunken rocks in your love feasts, feasting together with you; feeding themselves without fear; waterless clouds being carried about by winds; fruitless autumn trees, having died twice, having been plucked up by the roots” (Jude 1:12 MKJV).

   You say to Sara: “I see you belong to the same belief system as Victor, ‘Pathfromtruth’, I believe it is….” Our site is The Path of Truth, but yours could rightfully be called The Path from Truth because you have swerved aside from the Truth, the Lord Jesus Christ, into foolish talk, which leads others into the ditch with you. Like TJ, for example, who, rejecting the Gospel, finds the lies he chooses to believe taught on your site.

   You are confounded, Jacob, as are all those with you. You write in response to the Scriptures given you: “…the carnal man FEARS GOD.” But the Lord says of the carnal man: “There is no fear of God before their eyes” (Romans 3:18 KJV).

   The fear of God is good, a blessing and not a curse. Though you give lip service to the fear of God on occasion, you truly despise any reverence of Him, reserving it all for yourself. You always default to your position that teaching the Commandments of the Lord, or warning of the consequences of disobedience to these, is fear-mongering.

   In this you condemn not only us, but all of God’s servants, such as the apostle Paul, whose words made Felix afraid:

   “And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and the judgment to come, Felix trembled and answered, Go for this time, but taking time later, I will call for you” (Acts 24:25 MKJV).

   Unbelievers fear the judgment of God, not God. That is very different from what you say. On the other hand, believers fear God and embrace His judgments:

   “My soul breaks for the longing that it has to Your judgments at all times” (Psalms 119:20 MKJV).

   “I have chosen the way of truth; I have laid Your judgments before me” (Psalms 119:30 MKJV).

   “And take not the Word of Truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in Your judgments” (Psalms 119:43 MKJV).

   What is a wise man to do?

   “Don’t be wise in your own eyes. Fear the LORD, and depart from evil” (Proverbs 3:7 HNV).

   But what about “Jacob Israel,” who throws caution to the wind?

   “A wise person is cautious and turns away from evil, but a fool is careless and overconfident” (Proverbs 14:16 GW).

   Though we have made a thorough case against your wickedness, there are a couple more things in your post that should be answered. You write:

   “Now, of course, ANANIAS DIED (he was ignorant of the Truth) – Ananias kept back part of the land, in other words he didn’t trust God was in control, this has nothing to do with literal money of course, it has to do with holding onto self effort and will. So when he ‘DIED’ – Of course this inspired FEAR, ‘To be carnally minded is DEATH’ – It was the CARNAL MIND of ANANIAS, HIS DEATH, that inspired FEAR.”

   Ananias was not ignorant of the Truth. The reason he died was because he knew the One Who is the Truth and lied to Him. The people weren’t afraid because of Ananias’ carnality, or their own. What a false, stupid notion! Yes, stupid because wicked, as coming from a covetous and rebellious heart. Carnality hardens one towards God and the fear of Him. The people feared because God killed Ananias and his wife, instilling them with reverence for the seriousness of their calling and His Presence among them in Christ.

   After that, none of them could easily pull stunts like marrying unbelievers and then arguing with Peter that they were now free in Christ to do as they pleased, and who was he or any of the other apostles to lay fear and control on them.

   You write:

   “So, I don’t get upset when people come against what I have written. If it is not true, I have FAITH God will bring that to light, and he will do so LOVINGLY, or as I need if I be stubborn and ignorant. As a Father who LOVES corrects a young child who knows no better.”

   The Lord has brought your error to light, quite kindly and gently compared to what Ananias and Sapphira experienced. More was required of them because they had more, being authentic believers. But your ignorance and lack of God’s Spirit doesn’t excuse you, because you are now held accountable for what you have seen and heard from Him, which you have despised and rejected in your stubbornness. And it isn’t us or our mere words that you reject, but the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father Who inspires them (John 15:24).

   You quote Sara:

   “The fear of God forms the spirit of power and love and a sound mind, which spirit ‘Jacob Israel’ claims to have, but he doesn’t, and he can’t, because he rejects that which brings one into salvation.”

   And reply:

   “I have to STRONGLY disagree that FEAR, GUILT AND SHAME SAVES US. I would say, CHRIST SAVES, and to confess CHRIST is to depart from these EVIL thoughts.”

   2 Thessalonians 2:8-10 MKJV
   (8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the breath of His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming,
   (9) whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
   (10) and with all deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, so that they might be saved.

   There is nothing evil about revering (fearing) God. There is nothing evil about being ashamed after sinning, and grieving because falling short of revering Him as one should. Those are good and natural things for the spiritual man, because they lead to repentance of sin:

   “For the grief according to God works repentance to salvation, not to be regretted, but the grief of the world works out death” (2 Corinthians 7:10 MKJV).

   You, “Jacob Israel,” have most certainly despised the good things of God that lead one to salvation. You have no fear or shame on account of your sins and blasphemies because you have not received a love of the truth that you might be saved. You have taken a shortcut, thinking that by rejecting all shame and fear, you have attained to Christ and the peace of God. You are found out now, however, discovered trying to come up another way and to enter the banquet feast without a wedding garment (the righteousness of Christ). You are tossed out, never having been His disciple or known His rod.

   You write:

   “And it is not up to you, to say whether or not I am saved from fear, guilt, and shame. You cannot know if I be saved or not, because you are not me, or God. I can say, I have LIBERTY which is freedom and peace, and in many areas of my life I have been saved. My salvation is a daily thing, each day I work it out.”

   Are you not in all contradiction and hypocrisy, whatever your name is, to say we can’t know you, yet you claim to know our hearts, wrongly accusing us of trying to control you through fear? What a great lie you tell here, that we can’t know you, though we have the Spirit and Mind of Christ! We are not in your position of walking in the natural mind, unable to judge anything aright because of your darkness; and neither are we to be judged by you:

   1 Corinthians 2:14-16 MKJV
   (14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
   (15) But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one.
   (16) For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

   You walk in the sin nature. What you call “liberty” or “grace,” the Scriptures call “iniquity.” You are one of those who promises others liberty, while you are yet a bondservant of corruption (2 Peter 2:19). All you are working out is the fantasy in your mind that says there is no God, and that you are in control. You have now met the One Who calls the shots, the immovable Cornerstone, and you won’t be able to continue your ruse as before.

   Like “Grizzly Man,” who thought he could live amongst the bears without harm, you think there are no consequences in denying God’s holy order and commandments. So you too will be eaten by the bear of Truth and Consequences. Those who follow you will experience the same, but we also know that the fall of sinners can bring good things:

   “And in that hour a great earthquake occurred, and the tenth part of the city fell. And seven thousand names of men were slain in the earthquake. And the rest were frightened and gave glory to the God of Heaven” (Revelation 11:13 MKJV).

   Paul Cohen

   Reply
   • T.J. June 11, 2010 / 3:22 AM

     Paul,

     It is obvious that you and Victor and your handful of righteous followers are in sole possesion of the truth, the way , and the light, so I ask you to stop beating around the bush and tell us straight what it is we need to believe and how we need to live our lives so we can receive salvation like the two of you.

     Bullet points will do just fine, no need for lengthy lectures telling us how wrong and stupid we are or how damned we are. At this point, we just need you to lay it out straight, so man up already.

     Also, please include a list of laws that we all need to follow to govern our daily lives. Whatever list you and Victor use will suffice.

     T.J.

     Reply
8. David June 9, 2010 / 10:32 AM

   T J, you brought tears rolling from my eyes. You have ripped your heart open before us, and I thank you for your great words and tender mercies that are set before us with grace, as a banquet.

   Reply
9. jonna June 9, 2010 / 1:39 AM

   Truth is freedom and light, I can always discern the ego trying its best to stay alive when it knows it has but a short time. Victor and Paul have been treated with such love, that will not be returned void. May their hearts swell with the potency of the Christ Light shown by Jacob and others here. Love NEVER faileth…

   Reply
10. T.J. Whitworth June 8, 2010 / 11:32 PM

    This is to Victor and Paul since I assume you two will be reading this post and the comments that follow it.

    I have been on a journey for some time now and actually came across your site early last year. I really liked that you two believe that God will eventually save all, but along with that belief, you both carry much hate in your heart. You two claim to be spokespersons for God but if God is love, and He is, then the things you two speak to others is not love and not of God.

    I cannot tell you how many times I have read letters from both Paul and Victor ripping people apart for their beliefs, or really, for not believing EXACTLY the same way they do. You two have even gone so far as to say that certain individuals with illnesses were being punished by God by that illness for the way they believe. That is not love and that is not God. Having seen my dad lose his battle with lung cancer after 9 1/2 months, I have to tell you both that your words really got me hot under the collar. My dad was not perfect, but he was a good man and he would have given the shirt off of his back for anyone who needed it.

    The truth is, salvation has NOTHING to do with the physical body what so ever. Jesus said the flesh profits NOTHING. We are spirit. One day, all of our physical bodies will most assurdely fall to the ground in physical death, but we can never die.

    Anyway, none of that really matters here. What matters is that after I got ripped apart by the two of you, myself, God kept me moving forward. Eventually, He led me to Jacob’s site. Before I got here, God had already began revealing some of the truths that are on this site, so the things that God was and is inspiring Jacob to write really resonated with me. I know the things written here are words of truth, light, and love. That is why I e-mailed you two.

    I wanted you two to receive these truths. I knew in the back of my mind that your egos and pride would initially get in the way of your being able to receive here. But, I also know that God’s Word will not return to Him void. Regardless of how bruised your egos currently are, I know that God has planted a seed in both of your hearts though the words that He has inspired Jacob to write.

    I also know that it was God who inspired me to e-mail you both about this site. Jacob, I am sorry if I caused you any uneeded stress. That was not my intention. It was also not my intention for Victor and Paul to attempt to rip you apart, even I knew they would try. The truth is, even with your disclaimers at the beginning of every essay, what you write is the TRUTH, and it is inspired by God who is LOVE.

    I say these things with 100% confidence. It has been said before and bears repeating once again. We are all on the SAME JOURNEY. The only difference is that we are all at DIFFERENT points on our journey. This life is not a destination, it is a journey. We all make mistakes and we all struggle. That is because we have all been subjected to vanity/carnality by God because He also subjected us all to hope. On our own, in our carnal state, we cannot do anything to bring ourselves closer to God. According to Victor and Paul, it is our responsibility to choose God and to become perfect.

    My response to that is this. The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, nor can it be. However, the scribes and pharisees of Jesus’ day kept the letter of the law to the tee and yet they still could not recognize the truth/Jesus when he was in front of them. Why do you suppose this was? It was because they were CARNAL. They were not keeping God’s law, they were keeping Moses’ law. God’s law is LOVE and is written on our hearts, Moses’ law is the law of SIN AND DEATH and is written on tablets of STONE. The point of all of this is to show EVERYONE who believes that it is up to us to perfect ourselves that we are not capable of doing so. Actually, it is IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

    We all start out CARNAL/EARTHY/DEAD. The carnal mind can only know the things of death, it cannot know the things of life. So, Victor, Paul, and EVERYONE like minded as you two, the next time you all tell someone to REPENT, take a minute to think about what you are telling them to do. Repent means to change your thinking/mind. Again, a carnal mind cannot change itself for it only knows the things of death and can never choose the things of life. God repents for us. That is, God and only God changes our mind from that of CARNAL/DEATH to that of CHRIST/LIFE. Whether you two can receive it yet or not, God is in absolute control of ALL THINGS AND WORKS ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL. That is because, truly, there is nothing but God and His will. This means that regardless of what condition any of us are currently in or where any of us are currently at on our journeys, God is in control of it all and has us exactly how and where He wants us ALL THE TIME. I like to say it is all God all the time.

    Victor and Paul, this is the truth. The last time I we e-mailed one another, you two asked me if I loved you two. At the time, I could not honestly answer that because of where I was spiritually. After some time and further maturing, I can now honestly say that I do love you both. That is why I shared this precious site with you both. You two need it just as all of HUMANITY needs it. I am not saying to praise and worship Jacob. He is a really cool dude and a great guy, but in this work, He is God’s vessel. Every word written here is inspired by God.

    You know everyone, at some point, the time will come when we will be able to admit that we are all messed-up from the floor up. At some point, we will all be able to admit that we all struggle and we all make mistakes daily. We have all done, said, and thought things we wish we could take back. None of us are perfect and that is okay, because we are not a finished creation yet. Man loves to say how God “created” man in His image and likeness as if it is a done deal. But the truth is, God is not finished creating yet, He is creating us daily and the more we are subjected to His fire which burn within us, the more we will reflect His image and likeness. But as this process is worked out within us, all of the carnality is also worked out of us. A really good friend told me that God holds us over the hottest part of the flame and just as the impurities in metal bubble up to the surface as it is being refined, the same happens with us and our carnality. It has to bubble up to the surface as it is being worked out of us until there is nothing left but God’s express image and likeness. This same friend told me that even when we are at our worst, God is at His best.

    Victo and Paul, we are all the same. We are only divided in thought. But regardless of what any of us believe, what Jacob said is true. If it aint love, it aint God. God’s law is LOVE and we can only keep that law if we have the mind of Christ within us. Those without cannot keep this law but that does not mean they are without hope because one day we will all keep this law because we will all be of one mind just as we are currently of one spirit.

    Again, Jacob, I am sorry if I caused you any headaches by e-mailing Victor and Paul about your site. I just felt led to do so because as we get closer to the end of this age, God is going to be revealing these things to more and more people who are currently without.

    Anyway, my apologies to all for this comment being so long.

    T.J.

    Reply
11. rksouliske June 8, 2010 / 10:38 PM

    People always attack that which they fear… they dont want to be challenged in their thinking and beliefs … but when they are some try to convince themselves against their own doubts and fears by attacking others who are secure in theirs instead of reaching out in unity they rather divide..cause they have fallen under the illusion and lie of “If I can destroy that which others believe I bulster my own position regardless if its truth or not..”

    MARK 9:38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

    39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me,

    40 for whoever is not against us is for us.

    41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

    Reply
12. Eric Parra June 8, 2010 / 2:32 PM

    I feel lead to comment and will be addressing several involved throughout in the spirit of encouragement…

    It has been written that some tend to “spiritualize” all things found in scripture which begs the following question: Is our Father flesh or is He spirit?

    If such things were to be taken literally then why exclude the parables given to us by Our Lord…we should fully expect to see him one day with 5 wise virgins with lit lamps and 5 foolish ones outside his door who have no oil to keep their lamps lit. Please, do not take this as a mocking of anyone’s understanding….it is an illustration to make the point that the language of the spirit as we can understand inpart (until the fullness) is in pictures and parables throughout the entirety of scripture given to us.

    We become in creation like spiritual Helen Kellers(google search her story if you dont know who she is)…blind and deaf to the spiritual Truth and to Our Father’s Way. So, He who is Salvation draws us to the Truth in ways we first can understand until the blindness and deafness are healed! Blessed is the day when nature of Simeon (which means “hearing”) is sealed in your forehead…

    Protests abound though: “But it is written in the Bible that such and such…” I wonder what the first church did before they had a printing press without having a book or a ton of scrolls to follow word by blessed word. What in the world could they possibly have been following?

    If scripture is to be followed literally then why does the Lord say this through the prophet Isaiah 1:13-15:

    “To what purpose [is] the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight NOT in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats…… Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an ABOMINATION unto me;…”

    He told the people of Israel to DO these very things in Leviticus 1 “of a sweet savour unto the Lord”! A literal mystery indeed…the problem was that they LITERALLY did those things but did not understand what the picture of things represented in Truth by the spirit so much so that when they saw The Truth(Jesus) they did not believe in Him. I have heard many say “Our Father is all things” but one thing I know He is not is a liar. There is no contradiction in the scenario given above if you “spiritualize” it.

    2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; NOT OF THE LETTER, but of the S-P-I-R-I-T: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

    The scripture is one if not the most blessed tools any one of us can have in helping us know Our Father’s purposes, but it is NOT the end-all be-all of what it is in being a Son of God (yes, I said it..) Loving your God with all your soul, and all your heart, and all your might does NOT require a book but a COMPLETE OFFERING OF A LIFE. Our Lord will teach you all and more than is contained in scripture! My life, for His Life…I have never heard of a more perfect deal, have you? Having said that, I wouldn’t suggest you toss scripture aside until He is YOUR all…

    To know that Jesus is our salvation is just the first step…..a huge step indeed because without Him NOTHING begins. But, to think that our spiritual walk reaches its fullness in passover(our salvation experience where our spirit life is made alive in Christ) is to disregard pentecost(Baptism by the Holy Ghost – our own soulish ways and ideas coming to an end as our soul comes into marriage with the spirit’s Way) and tabernacles (the dwelling of Our Lord in His fullness within His various, unique dwelling places — THE TRUE FULLNESS).

    To know you are born from your Father does not mean you know His ways. You must be adopted as a Son into His House to begin to learn His ways. Until that time, you are a child waiting for adoption in mother’s house. Please, do not misunderstand me. NIETHER is greater in value than the other. Both are stages. No one enters middle school without first having gone through and UNDERSTANDING all the things taught in elementary school…only a vain 8th grader would go to 2nd graders and mock them for not knowing algebra.

    These who have come up against you, Jacob, have been taught that a circle is a square and a square is a triangle. They are trying to tell you the same because that is as they understand it is the whole truth. Can anyone blame them for that? Even if the smallest portion of criticism is correct, is it our Father’s way to condem a flower bud on a tree for not being a mature, ripe fruit…or rather does He nuture that flower bud to move on to the next stage in fruitfulness? You know, dear brother, as do many others. May the flower buds burst forth into flowers!

    Much Love,
    Eric

    Reply
13. Ann Johnson June 8, 2010 / 1:36 PM

    Beautiful! And they put Jesus to death because he told the world it was evil……….for the evil was of its self, they did not want to know it then and today is still the same. When we see that Christ was crucified on SKULL Hill and realize it represents our skull where the accuser, soul and spirit dwell (the garden enclosed), the enemy within. We will know that on THAT DAY we entered paradise having eaten of the tree of life in the middle of the garden of our soul and the enemy (carnal mind) was made a spectacle for all to SEE, yet the blind do not see until Christ opens their eyes for nor did I.

    Reply
14. David June 8, 2010 / 10:55 AM

    I did visit Paul and Victor’s site. Pretty harsh stuff to be found there. Not easy to be “entreated,” as it seems they are very astute in pointing out how most folks they come in contact with “are not saved.” So at least, Jacob, you are in good company.

    Reply

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